Extending Earth

[umpa]

Hello,

We are moving the kitchen around, resulting in a total re-piping of all the copper. The pipes will now be on the opposite side of the room. The earth wire that runs under the floor and comes down the wall and bonds to the hot and cold pipes is no longer long enough, despite it being rethreaded. Can this wire be jointed (extended under the floor boards) or must a new cable be run ?

Cheers

Ump.

 

[DaveHerns]

Can you pull a new cable through using the old one? That would be best

 

[umpa]

Hi, no because all the floor board will need to come up, and would require a new wire sinking in the wall from the CU. The CU is on the opposite side of the house.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Supplementary equipotential bonding is not required in kitchens .
2. Bonding is not earthing, and bonding cables do not go back to the CU. //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Earthing-Supply-types-and-Bonding .
3. If you've not moved either the main earth terminal or the position of the incoming water supply you won't need to change the main bonding cable .

 

[umpa]

I can tell you its a 10mm yellow and green single core cable. It bonded the hot and cold just below the ceiling, in order for the cable to reach the 600mm first T from the stop cock it needs to be lengthened. It never complied with that rule.
The kitchen sink and the bath were bonded, and I want to make sure it remains the same.

So Can I make a good joint via a connector under the floor boards to extend it. ? Or could I just use jumper leads from one bonding clamp to the next ? along the pipe - I intend to box these pipes anyway so won't be seen, and make the end bond visible at the appropriate places ?

 

[securespark]

Where does the cable come from?

Where did it attach to originally?

 

[umpa]

Well I assume it comes from the fusebox, it travels along the space between the ceiling and upstairs floor, then comes down through the ceiling and was bonded to water pipes (which are no longer there). so the wire is just poking out of the ceiling at the moment. The kitchen sink was bonded to the same pipes and Then the same pipes continued to the bathroom, where they were again bonded to the bath (which is metal).

Because we are fitting a new kitchen, and the copper pipes are being rerouted, the earth wire is no longer long enough to reach the new pipes, If I extend it by 5 feet or so then all will be fine. I was thinking of using a 60amp connector, wrapping green insulation tape over it and leaving it under the floor boards. Provided it tests OK, I don't see a problem. I am simply asking if that is an OK practice to do so.

Edit - I understand the house is on the PME system.

 

[Simon35]

You don't see a problem because you don't know the requirements and/or don't want there to be a problem.

Using a 60A connector and a bit of green tape won't change that.

Essentially, you need an unbroken 10mm single core earth from where your cold water pipe enters your house connected back to the main earth terminal at your CU.

Any other connections between bits of pipe, radiators, kitchen sinks, baths etc is supplementary bonding and is probably not required, but you don't have the knowledge or equipment to determine that.

Supplementary bonding doesn't go back to the CU.

 

[John D v2.0]

Really if it's main bonding, it should be a single piece running from the main earthing terminal to a clamp on the metal service near ideally where it enters the building.
Since it's so important especially for pme, I wouldn't want a joint under the floor with screw connectors as they can degrade.
From a pragmatic point of view since it's your own place if you really have to join it you could seal it up in an ip rated box and use crimped connectors for peace of mind. And perhaps connect directly to some other pipework elsewhere for belt and braces.

 

[securespark]

Well I assume it comes from the fusebox,

Never assume!

Is/ was your stopcock in the kitchen?

If not, find your stopcock and check to see if it has a Protective Equipotential Bonding conductor connected to it.

If it has, it is likely this wire in your kitchen was fitted as supplementary bonding and is no longer required.

 

[JohnW2]

Essentially, you need an unbroken 10mm single core earth from where your cold water pipe enters your house connected back to the main earth terminal at your CU.

That's often said, but, to the best of my knowledge, there is no regulatory requirement for a main bonding conductor to be 'unbroken'. Let's face it, there are usually at least three screwed connections in the path between the pipe being bonded and the incoming earth (and at least two to the installation's MET), so one more is no great catastrophe.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Simon35]

That's often said, but, to the best of my knowledge, there is no regulatory requirement for a main bonding conductor to be 'unbroken'. Let's face it, there are usually at least three screwed connections in the path between the pipe being bonded and the incoming earth (and at least two to the installation's MET), so one more is no great catastrophe.

Kind Regards, John

Maybe so, but I think the OP is intending to DIY it, and was suggesting a 60A connector (whatever that might look like) wrapped in a bit of tape and placed in an inaccessible location.

So for the avoidance of doubt, I believe pulling in a new unbroken cable would be the best action.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe so, but I think the OP is intending to DIY it, and was suggesting a 60A connector (whatever that might look like) wrapped in a bit of tape and placed in an inaccessible location. So for the avoidance of doubt, I believe pulling in a new unbroken cable would be the best action.

No matter what it's purpose, an unbroken cable is obviously always preferable to one with joints but I was merely making the point that there is no regulatory requirement for bonding conductors to be 'unbroken'. The 'bit of tape' would obviously not be required - I'm by no means sure that there is any requirement for a bonding conductor to even be insulated!

However, as you imply, the regs do not distinguish between bonding conductors and any other conductors, so any joint would have to be either accessible, or made in one of the ways that doesn't require accessibility. Since, as far as I am aware, 'MF' JBs which can take 10mm² cable do not exist, that would probably mean crimping.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hang on -

The earth wire that runs under the floor and comes down the wall and bonds to the hot and cold pipes is no longer long enough

in order for the cable to reach the 600mm first T from the stop cock it needs to be lengthened. It never complied with that rule.

So you never had proper main bonding, and moving the pipes around has not changed that?

The kitchen sink and the bath were bonded, and I want to make sure it remains the same.

Never mind supplementary bonding for the sink - you need to sort out the lack of main bonding of the incoming water supply.

So Can I make a good joint via a connector under the floor boards to extend it. ?

Extend what, to where?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Maybe so, but I think the OP is intending to DIY it

I must admit I'm not sure what he intends to do/wants to do/thinks he needs to do. I suspect he might still be talking about supplementary bonding.