Extension wiring - bodged by previous owner... and what options?

[newsgroupmonkey]

Hi all. New here, but seems like a good place to ask.
Technically, my expertise is in small circuits rather than ring mains and 240v.

Our house is a mess. We bought it last year. It's old and we've found there are lots of hidden foibles and we're going to need to get them fixed when we fit the new kitchen. The house is 60 years old and has had one owner.

I'm not looking to do this myself, but want to get an idea of the options etc. before we bring someone in.

Here's what currently exists (I know - there are other horrors too - the previous occupant loved a daisy-chain)

I want to add a lighting circuit too and an extra spur on the main ring main. I'm guessing this would be acceptable? Do I need to create the 2nd ring main?
Or can it simply be done as a radial?

If anyone could give me even a rough estimate of what this might cost too, I'd appreciate so that I know what to expect.

 

[plugwash]

Several questions come up.

1. What size and type are the existing cables?
2. Is the wiring you show in your diagram just for the kitchen or does it represent the whole house?
3. What potential routes are there for adding new cables?

 

[newsgroupmonkey]

Several questions come up.

1. What size and type are the existing cables?
2. Is the wiring you show in your diagram just for the kitchen or does it represent the whole house?
3. What potential routes are there for adding new cables?

Firstly, thank you for the response.

1. In the extension? Some of it will need to be replaced. It's been done properly to the first one using 2.5mm twin and earth. The others are, unfortunately, 2.5mm flexible cable and isn't trunked, simply put on with saddles (could have been worse, I guess)

2. Ah, sorry, I should have added, that was just to show the whole house ring main. It's not just the kitchen

3. Pretty open tbf. When I say "extension", it's not an extension as such - it's hard to explain, but it's effectively more like a workshop - garage like in construction (and I'm aware that would probably mean RCD sockets, which tbf, I'm comfortable with)

 

[chivers67]

So the workshop will require a re-wire and the existing will require testing to just to confirm it's ok? There must be a few more circuits not drawn?

 

[newsgroupmonkey]

So the workshop will require a re-wire and the existing will require testing to just to confirm it's ok? There must be a few more circuits not drawn?

Oh absolutely. Lots of course.
I'm hoping not to entirely rewire the house, that's all.
Replace consumer unit and sort the workshop bit.

Was just reading up. Apparently, flexible wire isn't a complete no-no? In fact, T+E isn't recommended in conduit?

 

[JohnW2]

Was just reading up. Apparently, flexible wire isn't a complete no-no?

True. One practical issue is in trying tofind out the current-carrying-capacity of flexible cables in any situation other than 'in free air'.

In fact, T+E isn't recommended in conduit?

'Singles' ('single-insulated') are much easier to use in conduit. Using 'insulated and sleeved' cables like T+E is also just wasting space within the conduit, since the 'sheath' is not required.

Kind Regards, John

 

[newsgroupmonkey]

True. One practical issue is in trying tofind out the current-carrying-capacity of flexible cables in any situation other than 'in free air'.

Ah, indeed John. I'm aware how much nonsense there is about calculating "free air" (I do a lot with coax and antennas which has similar impractical calculations).

Thanks all for your help. Really helpful so far - lots to think about and discuss with a professional.

 

[winston1]

Hi all. New here, but seems like a good place to ask.
Technically, my expertise is in small circuits rather than ring mains and 240v.

Our house is a mess. We bought it last year. It's old and we've found there are lots of hidden foibles and we're going to need to get them fixed when we fit the new kitchen. The house is 60 years old and has had one owner.

I'm not looking to do this myself, but want to get an idea of the options etc. before we bring someone in.

Here's what currently exists (I know - there are other horrors too - the previous occupant loved a daisy-chain)

I want to add a lighting circuit too and an extra spur on the main ring main. I'm guessing this would be acceptable? Do I need to create the 2nd ring main?
Or can it simply be done as a radial?

If anyone could give me even a rough estimate of what this might cost too, I'd appreciate so that I know what to expect.

It appears you have a ring with 4 double sockets, nothing wrong with that.
You have a radial with one double socket, nothing wrong with that. Other sockets are connected to that via a fused plug. Also OK as the fuse limits the total load to 13 amps.

So what you really need is a new CU with RCD and a tidy up in the extension. Best discussed with a spark who can also give you a ball park figure on costs.

 

[sparkwright]

I'm not sure if a series of sockets plugged into one other via a fused plug everytime is particularly 'OK'.

I imagine it's very messy, and means only one side of each of the double sockets can actually be used to plug random things in.

It would make good sense to get an electrician in to assess all the wiring, as now would be a good time to do a full or partial rewire if and where necessary.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah, indeed John. I'm aware how much nonsense there is about calculating "free air" (I do a lot with coax and antennas which has similar impractical calculations).

The problem is that all the usual information sources assume that 'flexible cables' will be used for the obvious/usual purpose - connecting 'portable' appliances, hence with the cable lying around on floors/desks/whatever and essentially 'in free air'.

For any other type of cable, one can easily find detailed tabulations of current-carrying-capacities (CCCs) for a wide range of 'installation methods - e.g. clipped to walls, buried in walls, buried in insulation, in conduit/trunking etc. etc. Simples

However, for 'flexible cables' of a given size, you will usually only find a single 'current-carrying-capacity' specified (for 'in free air'). Hence, if you asked me what was the CCC of, say, 3-core 2.5mm² flexible cable in, say, conduit, buried in a masonry wall or whatever, I wouldn't have a clue as to where to look for that information, and wouldn't even be certain that such information even existed! That's at least one reason why you won't often see flexible cables being used for house/building wiring!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not sure if a series of sockets plugged into one other via a fused plug everytime is particularly 'OK'. I imagine it's very messy, and means only one side of each of the double sockets can actually be used to plug random things in.

I imagine that most of our gut-feelings would be similar but, as winston has implied, it's hard to actually cite anything 'electrically wrong' with it - certainly no more 'wrong' than the (essentially identical) situation of a string of short 'extension leads'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Electrically it may be 'OK', but the op seems keen to improve things in his new house, so I think this surely needs to be on the 'to do' list.

 

[JohnW2]

Electrically it may be 'OK', but the op seems keen to improve things in his new house, so I think this surely needs to be on the 'to do' list.

It certainly would be for me

Kind Regards, John

 

[FrodoOne]

Do I need to create the 2nd ring main?
Or can it simply be done as a radial?

For an answer to your question concerning any perceived "need" for installing "Ring Circuits" for "Socket Outlets", please see

for the opinions of John Ward.

After viewing this, you may consider that it would be a good idea to convert the installation concerned to using only "radials" for all "Socket Outlets" !