External Sockets

[Tueur]

Hi Guys,

I want to fit an external RCD fitted weatherproof socket in my back garden. I have a plug socket on an internal wall, on the other side of the wall that I want to fit the external socket. I am quite happy with drilling through the wall and fitting the sockett but I cant figure out if an external socket is notifiable.

I found this link to an amendment from last year that means a lot of work is no longer notifiable but it doesn't stipulate whether outside is classed as a special area.

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File8952.pdf

Can anyone offer any assistance?

Thanks

 

[winston1]

Hi Guys,

I want to fit an external RCD fitted weatherproof socket in my back garden. I have a plug socket on an internal wall, on the other side of the wall that I want to fit the external socket. I am quite happy with drilling through the wall and fitting the sockett but I cant figure out if an external socket is notifiable.

I found this link to an amendment from last year that means a lot of work is no longer notifiable but it doesn't stipulate whether outside is classed as a special area.

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File8952.pdf

Can anyone offer any assistance?

Thanks

Are your circuits already protected by an RCD? If so you don't need, nor is it desirable, to have a second one in series.
Reading through your link it would not appear notifiable though others may disagree.

 

[JohnW2]

I found this link to an amendment from last year that means a lot of work is no longer notifiable but it doesn't stipulate whether outside is classed as a special area.

'Outside' does not count as a 'special location', so the work you intend to do is not notifiable (in England).

In Wales, the work would be notifiable, because Wales did not adopt the 2013 amendment, and thus is still working to the previous rules (which covered both England and Wales), under which most outside electrical work was notifiable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Tueur]

Thanks guys. I am in England and I have RCD (trip switch) in the consumer unit rather than fuses.

I normally use a plug in RCD when using power tools. If my consumer unit is uses RCDs then should I not use a the plug in RCD when doing DIY?

 

[winston1]

Thanks guys. I am in England and I have RCD (trip switch) in the consumer unit rather than fuses.

I normally use a plug in RCD when using power tools. If my consumer unit is uses RCDs then should I not use a the plug in RCD when doing DIY?

You have MCBs instead of fuses (or possibly RCBOs). You may (or may not) also have one or two RCDs.
You need to know what you actually have.
Post a picture of your consumer unit.

 

[Tueur]

Have just googled MCBs and RCBO for pics and I think they are MCBs. There are no additional RCDs that I am aware of. I will take a picture tomorrow as my CU is outside the main house and I need to go to bed.

Thanks for the input.

 

[JohnW2]

Have just googled MCBs and RCBO for pics and I think they are MCBs. There are no additional RCDs that I am aware of. I will take a picture tomorrow as my CU is outside the main house and I need to go to bed.

A photo will be useful. However, you can identify RCDs and RCBOs by the fact that they have 'test buttons'on them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

I normally use a plug in RCD when using power tools. If my consumer unit is uses RCDs then should I not use a the plug in RCD when doing DIY?

If it turns out you do have rcd protection at the consumer unit
In my veiw extra protection cannot do any harm.

Though you may encounter that when using the test button on the plug in unit, it could additionally trip the consumer unit rcd.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And if it turns out that he doesn't then a plug-in RCD adapter will not be a substitute - the original plan of installing an RCD socket will need to be followed.

Although that does not resolve the problem of concealed cables....

 

[bernardgreen]

If the external socket is fed from an internal socket circuit then if the external socket is damaged or becomes damp the MCb and /or RCD may operate and turn of all the sockets.

Therefore it is a good idea to feed the external socket via a double pole isolator. This will enable you to isolate the external socket if it becomes damaged or damp and thus the MCB and / or RCD can be reset.

 

[Tueur]

Have just googled MCBs and RCBO for pics and I think they are MCBs. There are no additional RCDs that I am aware of. I will take a picture tomorrow as my CU is outside the main house and I need to go to bed.

A photo will be useful. However, you can identify RCDs and RCBOs by the fact that they have 'test buttons'on them.

Kind Regards, John

Pretty sure there is no test button. so it looks like MCBs

 

[Tueur]

And if it turns out that he doesn't then a plug-in RCD adapter will not be a substitute - the original plan of installing an RCD socket will need to be followed.

Although that does not resolve the problem of concealed cables....

I believe a built in RCD is mandatory on external sockets. As it looks like I have MCBs in CU I will need an RCD fitted socket. I use the Plug in RCD when doing general DIY around the house.

 

[JohnW2]

And if it turns out that he doesn't then a plug-in RCD adapter will not be a substitute - the original plan of installing an RCD socket will need to be followed. ... Although that does not resolve the problem of concealed cables....

I believe a built in RCD is mandatory on external sockets. As it looks like I have MCBs in CU I will need an RCD fitted socket. I use the Plug in RCD when doing general DIY around the house.

RCD protection is 'mandatory' (required by Wiring Regs) for virtually all new sockets, whether indoors or outdoors - using an RCD socket could address that. However, as BAS eluded to, if any of the new cable is going to be buried in a wall, then you will need RCD protection 'upstream' of that cable, which would not be achieved by having an RCD socket at the end of the cable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Tueur]

If the external socket is fed from an internal socket circuit then if the external socket is damaged or becomes damp the MCb and /or RCD may operate and turn of all the sockets.

Therefore it is a good idea to feed the external socket via a double pole isolator. This will enable you to isolate the external socket if it becomes damaged or damp and thus the MCB and / or RCD can be reset.

I did think about installing an isolator but dismissed it when I found out I needed a seperate RCD as i could cut the power to the socket byt throwing the RCD. This would not solve the issue above though so I will install the isolator switch.

as the socket is going on the other side of the wall from an internal one I had planned to install it as an extension of the ring main rather than a spur, but I couldn't use an isolator if I did this as the isolator would isolate every socket after it in the ring.

I think I could do a ring extension by using a DPDT isolator switch. The main in comes into throw 1 and goes out on pole 1 to the external socket. the ring then comes back from the external socket and goes into throw 2 and on to the next interna socket in the ring from pole 1. pole 2 on throw 1 would be bridged to pole 1 on throw 2. This means when the switch is open the external socket is in the ring and the later circuits are fed by pole 1 on throw 2. when the switch is closed the external socket is isolated but the later sockets in the ring are now fed from pole 2 on throw 1? Hope that makes sense?

 

[Tueur]

And if it turns out that he doesn't then a plug-in RCD adapter will not be a substitute - the original plan of installing an RCD socket will need to be followed. ... Although that does not resolve the problem of concealed cables....

I believe a built in RCD is mandatory on external sockets. As it looks like I have MCBs in CU I will need an RCD fitted socket. I use the Plug in RCD when doing general DIY around the house.

RCD protection is 'mandatory' (required by Wiring Regs) for virtually all new sockets, whether indoors or outdoors - using an RCD socket could address that. However, as BAS eluded to, if any of the new cable is going to be buried in a wall, then you will need RCD protection 'upstream' of that cable, which would not be achieved by having an RCD socket at the end of the cable.

Kind Regards, John

Ah OK. And from a quick google it appears that swapping MCB for RCBO is notifiable?