Faulty circuit?

[decobee]

I am having an electrical problem in a flat I am doing up.
(don't know much about electrics, so the cause might be trivial!)

A few days ago, a circuit breaker tripped (probably because of overloading -- I was using a steam stripper at the time!). I switched the breaker back on and everything seemed fine.

More recently however, I realised that the ceiling lights are dead in at least 2 rooms (the sockets in those rooms are working though, and also I don't know about the ceiling lights in the other rooms as I have removed the lamps, taking care that no wires are touching!). Also 4 sockets are now dead in the room where I was using the steam stripper (however, I had been steam stripping for another few days after the tripping occurred). Strangely enough, 1 socket in that same room is live.

At the same time, once the wallpaper was removed from the wall, a massive hole appeared in the wall revealing 2 severed cables. However, they are not the same material/content. One is hard and has 3 wires in it: beige, red, blue. The other one is made of a softer material and has only 2 wires: red and black.

See image below:

Any ideas whether these weird cables have anything to do with my problem? (Or were they just dead in the wall and unused anyway?)

What else could be causing this problem and what can I do?

Thanks for any help..

 

[jeepmadmike]

get the installation inspected and tested and the defects repaired! sorry but its the best way

 

[decobee]

you mean call an electrician?

 

[industryspark]

where do we start?

firstly, if the cables buried in the wall are of a different type/material i would suggest they are old and not connected to anything.

i wouldnt be sure of this though so be very careful! im just thinking that surelly nobody would leave cables still connected to a live circuit in the walls like that.....but then again!

lights and sockets are on different circuits, or at least should be!!!!

think the best thing to do is get a sparky in to be honest because it sounds like a bit of a minefield to be honest.

make sure you get one whos registered to a schemei.e NICEIC,NAPIT.

 

[Adam_151]

I seriously hope its as IS suggests and those cables arn't in use anymore ... the top cable in the pic looks very much like lead sheathed cable to me, they stopped installing it in1948 IIRC and the inner cores are rubber insulated which degrades over time and lasts about 25 years normally...

 

[decobee]

1948! the rubber in the top cable is indeed degrading, flaking off very easily just from touching it!

 

[plugwash]

as I have removed the lamps, taking care that no wires are touching!

so you removed the lights without checking what was connected to what, no wonder other tlights aren't working (and btw you shouldn't leave exposed live wires even if they aren't touching)

have you done anything similar with sockets? in the case of sockets its even worse because generally in this country sockets are wired in ring circuits which should not be broken.

as for the cables that came out of the wall you should first confirm they are dead (i strongly suggest you find a friend who both owns and knows how to use a multimeter). assuming they are dead its a good idea to twist all cores together so a breaker/fuse will trip/blow if some idiot reconnects theier other end.

if they are live then you absoloutly must locate the other end to disconnect them and if nessacery replace with new cable (though if you find more cable of similar vintage your probablly looking at a rewire) they look well past thier lifetime especially the lead one.

 

[decobee]

when I removed the lights of course I checked what was connected to what. I could reconnect lamps correctly any time - just don't see a point to reconnect those old dusty smelly things until I've got the new lamps.) why would removing lights cause other lights (and various sockets) to not work? do you always have to have a lamp connected (that sounds truly absurd to me).

so what do you do with lose wires while you're working?

I do own a screwdriver/voltage meter thing (the type where you put your finger at one end and the screwdriver end on a fuse / bulb / outlet to check if it's live). Would that be any use to test those lose cables in the wall? (I haven't had the madness to touch them in any way with the mains switch on)

thanks for your help.

 

[dingbat]

I am having an electrical problem in a flat I am doing up.

Well, at least you are bothering to ask.

Why do people concentrate on the cosmetic work before discovering problems with the basics? A rewire on an empty property undergoing renovation is so relatively cheap that it is a false economy to try and get away with the old stuff. (Cheaper than a bathroom, a fraction of the cost of doing the kitchen, half the price of central heating, etc.)

Get it sorted properly. Then you'll have peace of mind. Not only that, but you'll also have all your power where you want it, everything will be new and you'll have a certificate to prove it. And you'll not have to worry about it again in your lifetime.

The alternative may be that you do it up, put it on the market and then a potential buyer discovers that it needs rewiring...

PS: Your last post says it all. You do not know enough to know what is right or wrong. Please call in a professional before you injure somebody.

 

[industryspark]

I do own a screwdriver/voltage meter thing (the type where you put your finger at one end and the screwdriver end on a fuse / bulb / outlet to check if it's live).

and throw this in the deepest pond you can find!

 

[decobee]

dingbat:

Why do people concentrate on the cosmetic work before discovering problems with the basics?

Because there weren't any 'basic' problems before I started stripping the place. All the lamps / sockets were working. The present problem must have happened along the way. It either has to do with the old cables in the wall, the disconnected lights, or a short circuit / overload that might have happened along the way. That's exactly what I am trying to find out.

PS: Your last post says it all. You do not know enough to know what is right or wrong.

I never pretended I did. Read my very first post. It's not those who ask that are stupid, but those who don't (as you rightly pointed out). In addition to that, I do know a hell of a lot in a hell of a lot of other fields ... but that's another story.

industryspark:

and throw this in the deepest pond you can find!

Don't think for a minute that I'm going to do that. For the specific uses that I have listed, it is a perfectly handy tool indeed. Do you really think I'm stupid enough to use it in a situation where I wouldn't be 100% sure?

 

[dingbat]

Because there weren't any 'basic' problems before I started stripping the place. All the lamps / sockets were working.

Hmm. That's kind of making my point.

Did an electrician tell you all was well or was this just your opinion? It is very, very easy to make sockets and lights work, but are they safe? How's your earthing and bonding? Will all your circuits meet the required disconnection times? The majority of domestic installations in this country are sub-standard and some are downright dangerous, but my experience is that people nearly always put appearance before safety.

I'm very glad you are asking questions. It does you credit. And my advice in response is to get an opinion from somebody with the knowledge and experience to properly inspect and your installation.

In addition to that, I do know a hell of a lot in a hell of a lot of other fields ... but that's another story.

Me too. You would be gobsmacked to read my CV. (But that's also another story )

 

[Steve]

and throw this in the deepest pond you can find!

Don't think for a minute that I'm going to do that. For the specific uses that I have listed, it is a perfectly handy tool indeed. Do you really think I'm stupid enough to use it in a situation where I wouldn't be 100% sure?

"handy" maybe, but do you trust it with your life? hold it near the fusebox, and watch it glow as it touches . . . nothing and if your skin is very dry, it might even tell you that the live wire you're about to kill yourself on is dead! BUY A CHEAP MULTIMETER ffs. This is a far safer method of determining a cable is dead.

 

[plugwash]

surely if your skin is very dry you'd be very unlikely to kill yourself on said live wire though it would still be unpleasent.

 

[decobee]

The majority of domestic installations in this country are sub-standard and some are downright dangerous, but my experience is that people nearly always put appearance before safety.

Tell me about it! For a country that has enough means to buy up the property of most countries and go to war in as many, you'd think they would have the means to put safety first and invest in a high standard of build at home. The bare covering up of faults (rather than repairing/fixing them), as I found out as I was stripping this place, is astounding. My kingdom for a shortcut! But that's also another story!

Anyway. Thanks to everyone for all the input. I have a much clearer idea now of what to do.