That does, indeed, seem to be the 'modern' system for the E7 tariff - it's certainly the set-up I have in my house.
Indeed so.
Kind Regards, John
Faulty meter?
- Thread starter skye16
- Start date
Kind Regards, John
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The original "White Meter" set up was this: -
A standard meter with a Voltage and a current coil,
two dials selectable by a small solenoid inside.
An additional live output terminal
An additional switching terminal to operate the solenoid.
Also as part of the system was a time switch set to the appropriate times applicable to the tariff in use (this was later changed to a radio teleswitch in some areas to allow more flexible times.
The connection set up was this
L & N from cutout to meter,
L1 output to on peak supplies
L2 output to time switch
2 neutrals possibly via a connector to the two supplies and the timeswitch
Input from switched terminal of timeswitch
From the timeswitch the L then continued to the off-peak supplies (usually storage heaters and immersion heater)
In this way all load was metered at either the on or off peak rates.
When the off peak switched in the load was controlled by the timeswitch (it had to be as the distribution system design was made to cater for this and not for the load switching on at random times set by the customer/electrician)(it still should be BTW)
The off peak load switched on and the solenoid in the meter changed the drive to the off peak dial, all load was metered at the off peak rate, hence the sales talk of operating automatic washing machines, dryers etc at night on the off peak rate.
Why was it a white meter, it was purely a sales gimmick, it could have been red or blue or any other colour than black!
Other tariffs used two meters with all on peak load being metered at that rate and a separate off peak meter only connected to the off peak loads via the time switch.
All modern dual rate meters still operate to this system and often incorporate the radio switch, so again all off-peak load should be connected to the switched output.
You also should not that a meter does not need the N in and out terminals connected to operate correctly, it just needs a single neutral, the second terminal is just for convenience
A standard meter with a Voltage and a current coil,
two dials selectable by a small solenoid inside.
An additional live output terminal
An additional switching terminal to operate the solenoid.
Also as part of the system was a time switch set to the appropriate times applicable to the tariff in use (this was later changed to a radio teleswitch in some areas to allow more flexible times.
The connection set up was this
L & N from cutout to meter,
L1 output to on peak supplies
L2 output to time switch
2 neutrals possibly via a connector to the two supplies and the timeswitch
Input from switched terminal of timeswitch
From the timeswitch the L then continued to the off-peak supplies (usually storage heaters and immersion heater)
In this way all load was metered at either the on or off peak rates.
When the off peak switched in the load was controlled by the timeswitch (it had to be as the distribution system design was made to cater for this and not for the load switching on at random times set by the customer/electrician)(it still should be BTW)
The off peak load switched on and the solenoid in the meter changed the drive to the off peak dial, all load was metered at the off peak rate, hence the sales talk of operating automatic washing machines, dryers etc at night on the off peak rate.
Why was it a white meter, it was purely a sales gimmick, it could have been red or blue or any other colour than black!
Other tariffs used two meters with all on peak load being metered at that rate and a separate off peak meter only connected to the off peak loads via the time switch.
All modern dual rate meters still operate to this system and often incorporate the radio switch, so again all off-peak load should be connected to the switched output.
You also should not that a meter does not need the N in and out terminals connected to operate correctly, it just needs a single neutral, the second terminal is just for convenience
That was the set-up that I inherited 25+ years ago (although I soon got rid of it in favour of a single dual-tariff meter) - but that tariff was also called 'Economy 7' (East Midlands Electricity in those days).
Kind Regards, John
Hi
The day time meter is going again, even when everything if off. Night time seems accurate.
Here are two photos, the first showing all switches off. The red light is still flashing every five seconds or so. The second photo shows the daytime reading.
Two questions I would be appreciate any answers for are:
1. Is it job for an electrician or the power company?
2. My neighbours electricity couldn't be going on my meter could it?
Thanks for any replies.
//media.diynot.com/98000_97592_77684_92228318_thumb.jpg
//media.diynot.com/98000_97592_77685_71143080_thumb.jpg
View media item 77685 [/img]
The day time meter is going again, even when everything if off. Night time seems accurate.
Here are two photos, the first showing all switches off. The red light is still flashing every five seconds or so. The second photo shows the daytime reading.
Two questions I would be appreciate any answers for are:
1. Is it job for an electrician or the power company?
2. My neighbours electricity couldn't be going on my meter could it?
Thanks for any replies.
//media.diynot.com/98000_97592_77684_92228318_thumb.jpg
//media.diynot.com/98000_97592_77685_71143080_thumb.jpg
View media item 77685 [/img]
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The important picture is:
View media item 77684It certainly looks as if everything is 'off' in which case the meter should not be recording any power usage.
(1) 'the power company'. (2) No.
Kind Regards, John
With those switches off, the only thing that should be taking any power is the timeswitch. (I presume that that box at the bottom left is the timeswitch.)
My recollection is that the LED on those meters flashes for 1/1000 kWh (am I right? - I don't currently have one). So one flash every 5 seconds would be 720 W. I think! That is enough that you should be able to feel the heat from whatever is using it - so is that timeswitch box getting hot?
Otherwise, if you're really seeing that LED flash every five seconds continuously with those switches all off, then it can only be a meter fault.
If I were you, I'd take a nice and detailed video of it. Just in case it mysteriously fixes itself before they visit and you get that £90 charge.
My recollection is that the LED on those meters flashes for 1/1000 kWh (am I right? - I don't currently have one). So one flash every 5 seconds would be 720 W. I think! That is enough that you should be able to feel the heat from whatever is using it - so is that timeswitch box getting hot?
Otherwise, if you're really seeing that LED flash every five seconds continuously with those switches all off, then it can only be a meter fault.
If I were you, I'd take a nice and detailed video of it. Just in case it mysteriously fixes itself before they visit and you get that £90 charge.
Radio Teleswitch
Though the LED is flashing is the unit readout actually advancing and by what amount in an hour.
At the end of the day that is what you are charged on not how many times an LED flashes. Don't forget on no/low load there is a setting to flash it to confirm that supply is available.
At the end of the day that is what you are charged on not how many times an LED flashes. Don't forget on no/low load there is a setting to flash it to confirm that supply is available.
The time switch signal comes direct from Scottish Hydro, the local power company. There's no problem with that.
Everything at night is cheap rate, not just the storage heaters.
It's strange that it is only the day (expensive) meter that is faulty.
Everything at night is cheap rate, not just the storage heaters.
It's strange that it is only the day (expensive) meter that is faulty.
Response to:
'Though the LED is flashing is the unit readout actually advancing and by what amount in an hour.'
Yes the meter is advancing. I first noticed it flashing, and when I checked the readings, I found I was using far more units than I normally use - probably about ten or twelve more units per day. I'm guessing that's nearly a unit per hour.
A friend had said the electricity could be going onto the storage heater circuit, but that is switched off.
'Though the LED is flashing is the unit readout actually advancing and by what amount in an hour.'
Yes the meter is advancing. I first noticed it flashing, and when I checked the readings, I found I was using far more units than I normally use - probably about ten or twelve more units per day. I'm guessing that's nearly a unit per hour.
A friend had said the electricity could be going onto the storage heater circuit, but that is switched off.
Well what with there being 24 hours in the day, that's about half a unit per hour.
That is certainly consistent with the 720 W that I got from the flash-every-5-secs.
Is anything getting hot?
Update.
The meter was faulty, and has now been replaced.
The power company has said it will compensate me for the extra units used, but this has not happened yet.
Faulty meters may be rare, but they obviously do happen.
Thanks.
Skye16
The meter was faulty, and has now been replaced.
The power company has said it will compensate me for the extra units used, but this has not happened yet.
Faulty meters may be rare, but they obviously do happen.
Thanks.
Skye16
Many thanks for the update. I'm glad that it's sorted out, and hope that you get your money soon.
As you say, faulty meters do happen, but it seems to be very rare. It's quite common for people to ask questions on forums like this about allegedly faulty (usually 'over-reading') meters, but it very commonly eventually transpires that they were overlooking (or didn't even know about!) some real electricity consumption, and that the meter was 'telling the truth'.
Kind Regards, John
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