FENSA Cert refused by the council. What now?

[discoman]

Our Local Authority charged us £526 to come and issue a retrospective FENSA certificate as we had our windows replaced in January 2012 with no FENSA cert.

They refused the certificate because they state that all of the new windows require trickle vents fitting.

I don't think this is right a) because its not new build, it's an old Victorian property, b) the windows were old wooden sash with no trickle vent before, and were replaced with UPVC sash lookalike, c) I believe you only have to install trickle vent on new build and/or replacements where the old ones had them before, d) we have had no condensation whatsoever since fitting, indicating to me that we have not reduced the ventilation in the property.

Plus, no other houses in our road have trickle vents in their replacement windows.

We need to exchange contracts this week to enable completion on the day we have to move (23/12/13) and now our buyers lenders are getting twitchy. Our solicitor wont offer indemnity as it came up on the local search that our LA have refused a FENSA due to non-compliance.

What can we do????

 

[s60tsy]

get in touch with the company who did them, i think they can be fitted after installation too. some people beleive the night vent lock is enough but im not clued up

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You are right, you do not need vents where there were none before, its very clear in this respect, it is only a recommendation: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_F_2010_V2.pdf page 41 of the PDF item 7.4

If you get no joy with the officer dealing with your case then speak with the head of Building control, if things get funny I would also be inclined to tell him that you will sue them for any financial losses you may suffer should your house sale fall through because of this.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Furthermore I would be inclined to believe that the sellers solicitor is BSing, I find it extremely hard to believe that a mortgage company would care about non-compliant windows.

 

[discoman]

get in touch with the company who did them, i think they can be fitted after installation too. some people beleive the night vent lock is enough but im not clued up

The company that fitted were not FENSA registered - hence my problem, but they have said that trickle can be self-fitted. The problem is that I don't believe they should or need to be fitted. For the reasons said before.

Plus, we would be the only house in our street to have them, and that doesn't seem right or indeed fair

 

[Gazman16]

As stated they are only needed if they were in the old windows or if new build.
They can be retro fitted but its a bit of a pain of a job.

It sounds like you have already paid the fee to building control you could most likely have just got an insurance policy for about £100 to allow the sale to continue, I think its called an indemnity insurance.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

BC are wrong end of story.

Its too late for an indemnity now anyway as the OP's solicitor has hinted, BC have been informed and once that happens the indemnity option door closes.

 

[discoman]

Thank you for referring me to the correct regs.

I rang the council to appeal quoting Section F Ventilation, 7.3 & 7.4 which clearly states 'trickle vents not required if replaced windows did not have them'

The council rang me back 20 minutes later...

"Sorry, but those regs applied up to 2006, therefore our decision stands"

I reply... "Is that so?"

"Yes" He says.

So I respond.... "Then how come the regs I am reading and quoting from are dated October 2011 then?"

All goes quiet on the other end..... "I am looking at our hard copy off our shelf, dated 2006"

I respond again..."May I suggest it might be a good idea to obtain an up to date copy then, and double check? Particularly as it appears you are making incorrect decisions based on old regs. Furthermore, if you are still saying after checking, then I require an email today stipulating your reasons for refusal, quoting the specific regulations that we have contravened. I need this because if I have to take any form of legal action to compensate for monies lost due to house sale falling through, then I will need it"

"I will call you back" he replies.

Whilst waiting my solicitor calls to see where we are. I tell her the story and she says she will try ringing the council.

5 minutes later she calls me back.... "I don't know what you said to them, but they have just advised me that a FENSA cert has been issued 3 minutes ago!"

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Still, at least we have it now, but can you believe the local authority were basing a decision on out of date regs, and were quite happy to take our £526 and give nothing back, and happily see our house sale fall through.

Thanks again for all of your help

 

[rjm2k]

From what you say the regs weren't out of date, they assumed that because they didn't have an uptodate copy that somehow they no longer applied!

 

[Gazman16]

Im glad you got it all sorted finally

Building control and the planning departments are just an absolute waste of space. They don't know half the regs and make it up as they go along and when you point it out to them they are wrong you get nothing but grief when ever you deal with them in future.

All they want is your money and to be as awkward as possible.

If I were you I would really look into the fee they charged you as well!

Im in Somerset which is one of the more expensive areas for their fees but building work upto £5000 the fee is about £150 here (I did have a price list somewhere but couldn't find it for you Im afraid).

I cant believe they charged you £500 odd, That should cover works between £50000- 100000 I would have thought. I would seriously check their website for charges and try to get some money refunded if I were you

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A good result! Thanks for coming back to share.

I cant believe they charged you £500 odd, That should cover works between £50000- 100000 I would have thought. I would seriously check their website for charges and try to get some money refunded if I were you

I agree it would be worth the OP checking the fee they charged but Gazman, where windows are concerned BC's charge per window (or per 5 or whatever) not on the cost of the works as per building work.

 

[Gazman16]

Before I joined Fensa 5 years ago I spent a year registering every job with building control and the fee was on the total value of the works back then.

Has it changed in the last 5 years?

I tried finding the price list that I used to have from their website but all I could find was a note saying each job was priced on an individual bases.
I do have it printed out somewhere but it will be buried under 5 years of paper work
I will try to dig it out and post a pic of it sometime.

 

[Gazman16]

It does look like the charges changed in 2010

The Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/404) (the 2010 Regulations) were laid before Parliament on 25 February 2010 and come into force on 1 April 2010. The 2010 Regulations revoke and replace The Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 1998 (SI 1998/3129) (the 1998 Regulations). They make new provision authorising local authorities (LAs) in England and Wales to fix their own charges in a scheme, based on the full recovery of their costs, for carrying out their main building control functions relating to building regulations.

Taken from here:
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/bu...licyandlegislation/currentlegislation/charges

£500 odd still seems very excessive though

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Which Local Authority are you dealing with discoman? A quick scan at fees for some random Authorities reveals prices from £150-£218 for up to 20 windows.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

@ discoman are you with South Somerset? Have a read here: http://www.southsomerset.gov.uk/media/412791/fee_charges010412.pdf

Make a sentence out of the following words:

been off you've ripped