Festool TS 55 Vs TSC 55 plunge saw

[lostinthelight]

Different beasts with different uses. The cordless tools seem to be a bit more powerful, but battery life can be an issue. For flooring work at the moment I use a Makita DSP600 cordless which seems to have more oomph than either my TS55 or the firm's SP6000 (Makita). On the other hand it takes 4 batteries to run it (hence a double charger) before you even consider a cordless vacuum. I went Makita cordless because of the battery system (I use mainly Mak cordless kit)

I was going to buy the corded Makita plunge saw but as I also want cordless chainsaw, hedge cutter ,combo drill etc thought I may go fully into Makita system and start with a Dsp6000
Jak, as you have first hand experience with the latter could you please give me an idea as to battery life in terms of how many 2400 sheets of 18mm chipboard could be ripped in half on a single charge?
Thanks

 

[big-all]

as an aside
around 900w at 18v seem to be the top avaiable with dewalt at the moment so iff we imagine all can manage similar to keep it simple
so 10.8v would be 540w
18v would be 900w
36v would be 1800w
54v would be 2700w
now a battery contains a set amount off stored energy[fuel]
the tool uses the fuel to power its engine[volts] this governor the power available
it is then a simple equation with limiting factors similar to a car so efficiency varies possibly by 30% but to keep it simple
stored energy say 6ah +18v= 108w for 2hrs but you can convert that watts available for a minute thats x60 so 6480w
now a 54v dewalt plunge saw could in theory as i said be 2700w but they may be happy to make it smaller at say 2100w with the average cut using say 1/3 that for minute so 700w consumed per cut so your 2ah 54v battery [2x54x60=6480]would cut approximately 9 cuts
now iff you use two 54v batteries in parallel you get twice the fuel or wired in series twice the power at 108v
clear as mudd eehh

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So a corded saw is the one to go for then. I won't use it to cut stacks of ply. I cut ply but mostly single sheets, softwood, hardwoods to build stuff. I considered the Festool TS 55 because I read good things about it. Maffell MT55 was mentioned here too. I'm looking for a plunge saw that would be accurate, durable and with good ergonomics, which one would you recommend?

I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, partly because my own choice was Festool, but then part of that was down to having a use for the TS75 saw at a later date. When I first went Festool the MT55cc was not yet on the market, but the Makita was. I also saw a need (in the future) for an MFT/3 bench and I had already decided to move my tools into Systainers (although again this pre dated other firms coming to market with their own alternatives). So it was the system which decided me, possibly combined with a bit of snobbery because the Mak can use the Festool system as welll

But it really depends on your budget. In terms of accuracy in site work they are all much of a muchness. On the bench I think the Festool system, with accessories like the MFT/3 and parallel cut devices edges it out. By far the cheapest option is the Makita SP6000 which is compatible with the Festool rails. The Festool TS55R at over £150 more is a step up in terms of fit and finish, but is really no more accurate. The Mafell MT55cc is maybe £100 odd more than the Festool and whilst it's nicely made I doubt that it's worth £100 more than the Festool. There's also the Bosch GKT55CE which is a slightly stripped-out MT55cc (I.e it is minus a couple of minor features) and finally there is the deWalt DWS520, which is pitched to be competitive with the Makita.

One pertinent point to make is that whilst the Makita has decent dust extraction performance, the Festool is noticeably better, and the Mafell marginally better than the Festool (although not much). In any case to get the best out of these saws you need a high quality dust extractor in your kit which to my mind means either Starmix (sold as Metabo and Mafell as well) or Festool

The deWalt (DWS520) has a unique guide rail system which is not compatible with anyone else's rails. It also has a bit of an odd plunge system which I found I couldn't live with when I tried one (albeit 10 years ago). Their saw comes in a T-Stak box. The DW saw only runs on their rails

Makita and Festool share the same guide rail system (with a couple of minor differences meaning that a Festool TS75 - the 210mm saw - can't run on the Makita guide rails because the baseplate is too wide, Makita saws also have an extendable tab which fits into an extra groove on Makita rails allowing them to lock onto the rail making long bevel cuts much easier). Their saws (both Makita and Festool) all come in Systainers. The Festool rail system has been around some 20+ years and is well proven

Bosch and Mafell saws share the same guide
rail system which has a marginally better joining system than the Festool. Bosch tools come in an L-Boxx (Sortimo) whilst last time I looked the Mafell came in a Systainer.

Starting again, and assuming I could only buy one saw, I think I'd still go for the Festool, because it is part of a system, as opposed to the Mafell, although it would be a close call

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...as you have first hand experience with the latter could you please give me an idea as to battery life in terms of how many 2400 sheets of 18mm chipboard could be ripped in half on a single charge?

Sorry for the delay, but this has taken some working out (using the figures in my journal). It seems to work out at about 350 to 400 feet (or 43 to 50 length rips on 8 x 4ft 18mm hardwood flooring ply using 2 no. 5Ah battery packs and a brand new Makita efiCut blade - talking with another sub who has a Festool TSC55R that is slightly, but not much better than he reckons on getting on 2 no. 5.2Ah batteries and a new blade). The efiCut blades are nice blades, but to my mind are way too expensive to be used on general sub-flooring, so I for that I normally substitute a deWalt cordless blade, which being msrginally thicker brings the amount of cutting down by about 10 to 15%. Like all cordless saws these tools are sensitive to blade thickness and sharpness and will eat batteries if you run them with a blunt blade. The other change I've made is to use a couple of 9Ah batteries on mine (3rd party, Waitley) which generally ensures that I'll get a full day of cutting out of one set of batteries with maybe a bit to spare. You do need a dual or quad charger with one of these saws (Makita do both, AFAIK Festool and Mafell do not). A current flooring task I'm dealing with requires a lot of cut-outs to be done around truss ends, queen posts, steel straps, stair openings, etc as well as every well running out, so in a good day two of us won't normally lay more than 40 to 45 sheets and nail them (to a nailing pattern of about 500 nails per top sheet on this job - it's a diaphragm floor), often less because of the volume of trimming required around various obstacles.

Hope that gives you a useful indication of work volume

 

[lostinthelight]

Hope that gives you a useful indication of work volume

Thank you very much for the helpful reply, Ffx seem to have it at the best price I can find at the mo.
[URL]https://www.ffx.co.uk/product/Get/Makita-Dsp600Rtpjkit-5055945269901-Twin-18V-2-X-5.0Ah-Brushless-Plunge-Saw-Rail-Kit
[/URL]

 

[Yukster]

Starting again, and assuming I could only buy one saw, I think I'd still go for the Festool, because it is part of a system, as opposed to the Mafell, although it would be a close call

Based on the advice I think I will buy the Festool TSC 55.

I don't think I would need third-party batteries for longer battery life, but if I do, what batteries would you recommend for the TSC 55?

And what saw blade would you suggest? You mentioned that the Efficut blade will get better results out of the Makita cordless saw. Is there a blade alternative to the one that comes with the TSC 55 that will improve performance?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Festool saws only run on Festool batteries -AFAIK nobody does third party batteries for them. If you want to charge a battery set you will need two chargers as Festool doesn't have a dual charger, however the TSC55 is capable of running on a single battery, unlike the Makita which always requires two.

I'd stick with the Festool blades on a TSC55, but it depends on what your main tasks are. One of the things about using a guide rail system.is that with the first cut you trim the guide rail anti splinter strip. Swap between different manufacturers blades (with different kerf widths) and you won't get the advantage of that anti-splinter strip. Same goes for using new and old blades; when blades are ground (sharpened) they lose a tiny bit of the kerf width meaning that if you fo resharpen blades it is probably best to have a batch foreground together with an instruction to the saw doctor's to grind an identical kerf on all the blades. That way when the blades come back all you need to do is unpeel the anti splinter strips on your rails, clean the glue residue off and restick them with a few mm more overhang. If the glue has come off completely double sided carpet tape can be used to re-adhere the strips. A trim cut made with one of the "new" blades will then set the edge of the anti-splintervstrip in the right place. The strip can be moved 3 to 5 times before you need to buy a new one (unlike on the Mafell/Bosch rails which use a bespoke and fairly expensive, anti splinter strip). The anti splinter strips from Festool and Makita rails are interchangeable.

 

[Yukster]

Festool saws only run on Festool batteries -AFAIK nobody does third party batteries for them. If you want to charge a battery set you will need two chargers as Festool doesn't have a dual charger, however the TSC55 is capable of running on a single battery, unlike the Makita which always requires two.

I see that Festool sell 6.2 Ah batteries also so i guess these could provide power for longer if needed.

I'd stick with the Festool blades on a TSC55, but it depends on what your main tasks are. One of the things about using a guide rail system.is that with the first cut you trim the guide rail anti splinter strip. Swap between different manufacturers blades (with different kerf widths) and you won't get the advantage of that anti-splinter strip. Same goes for using new and old blades; when blades are ground (sharpened) they lose a tiny bit of the kerf width meaning that if you fo resharpen blades it is probably best to have a batch foreground together with an instruction to the saw doctor's to grind an identical kerf on all the blades. That way when the blades come back all you need to do is unpeel the anti splinter strips on your rails, clean the glue residue off and restick them with a few mm more overhang. If the glue has come off completely double sided carpet tape can be used to re-adhere the strips. A trim cut made with one of the "new" blades will then set the edge of the anti-splintervstrip in the right place. The strip can be moved 3 to 5 times before you need to buy a new one (unlike on the Mafell/Bosch rails which use a bespoke and fairly expensive, anti splinter strip). The anti splinter strips from Festool and Makita rails are interchangeable.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks

 

[Ryler]

Based on the advice I think I will buy the Festool TSC 55.

If you just want this machine for home use then I would recommend corded.
And 240v.
And it will plug straight into the festool vacuum cleaner with the auto start/stop facility.
Any dust making machine is never cordless when you have a vacuum attached in any case.
As for budget the cordless tsc is double the price.

Metabo had auto start incorporated about 3 years ago using a vibration sensor.
Yes they make cordless vacuums. Which in turn make the tool corded.
It defeats the whole purpose imo.
A 35mm thick cord/hose if using festool.
And btw, Mafell saws are compatible with Festool rails.
As are Metabo.
I use my Metabo cordless saw with the festool rails but no vacuum.
Thats when face masks come in handy.

 

[catlad]

Bosch have just brought out a new machine GKS 18V-68GC
Looks good.

 

[Yukster]

Bosch have just brought out a new machine GKS 18V-68GC
Looks good.

Is this the same sort of saw?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

No. It isn't a plunge saw and the guard design means that the dust extraction cannot be as effective as the full blade covers fitted to plunge saws like the TS55, MT55, etc

 

[catlad]

Dust extraction looks good to me

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Surely any saw with an open side guard will not extract as well as one with a closed sided guard when using the same extractor. All these plunge saws have extraction which is way better than conventional curcular saws. Try a plunge saw on a good class M extractor on MDF and you'll see first hand what I mean

 

[lostinthelight]

The other change I've made is to use a couple of 9Ah batteries on mine (3rd party, Waitley) which generally ensures that I'll get a full day of cutting out of one set of batteries with maybe a bit to spare.

If you don't mind me asking JAK,
where fid you purchase the 9 ah batteries and how are they holding up in use.
I thought I my try some in my Duc254 battery muncher