finished size of T&G?

[oldman2]

Hopefully a simple question please...

If something was spec'd with 19mm T&G would you expect the finished floor to be 19mm thick or less?

If less would 16mm be acceptable?

Wood finished sizes are always a bit of a mystery to me, whatever I ask for at the wood yard near always ends up being under the size I thought I was getting.

I will explain further once I have the information, thanks.

 

[^woody^]

19mm would be 19mm as the board would not shrink that way - it will shrink across the width.

The depth is important as it determines how much the board can span [between the joist] and the overall strength of the floor

 

[oldman2]

Many thanks Woody, I didnt think 19mm should turn into 16mm but its nice to have it confirmed.

I have asked the next question here

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=174763

re the amount of loading the 2 different floor thicknesses can take as I have a site meeting tomorrow and would prefer to be a well informed layman before then.

 

[big-all]

Hopefully a simple question please...

If something was spec'd with 19mm T&G would you expect the finished floor to be 19mm thick or less?

If less would 16mm be acceptable?

Wood finished sizes are always a bit of a mystery to me, whatever I ask for at the wood yard near always ends up being under the size I thought I was getting.

I will explain further once I have the information, thanks.

its simple realy

the sizes are the un worked stock size[sawn size]
planed timber is 3 to 6mm smaller and up to 12mm for wider boards[planks]
if you add a tounge and groove that removes a further 7mm from the coverage but not the size

this is why when you ask for txg cladding and they say ex 4x1/2"[101mmx13mm] you finnish up with 9mm thick boards that cover 88mm so finnish up 3mm thinner and 13mm narrower

 

[^woody^]

Joist spacing more than 450mm should really have at least 22mm thick T&G boards

 

[oldman2]

Its a workshop floor so built to a price, but was spec'd as 19mm T&G. Looks to me like I will need to cover it with either 9mm or 18mm ply now to make up for the shortfall in thickness.

 

[ratman123]

If you've asked for a finished size of 19mm, then thats what you should get.

the allowable tolerance for finished size for T&G softwood flooring is -0mm or +2mm (ref BS1297)

 

[oldman2]

Well I am a little miffed to be frank, I purchased a workshop and the specifications stated the floor to be 19mm T&G
I had the option to order the 20x12 workshop with no floor and lay my own ply floor on my basework and have them build the workshop on that but as it was 19mm flooring I thought I was getting I considered that to be strong enough.

Here is a link to the shed build and base post I made //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1173790#1173790

What I actually got was 16mm very knotty T&G which has already started to loose the knots leaving me with holes up to 25mm in the floor and I havnt started using it yet.

I just finished talking to the suppliers on site and they didnt seem to get the fact that joe public expects 19mm to mean 19mm not 16mm.

Not sure if I should persue this further now or just bite the bullet and go buy 8 sheets of ply and overfloor their floor.

Here is a link to the workshed spec http://www.eaglesheds.co.uk/specifications.htm
No mention anywhere on the site that the finished sizes will be less than the advertised ones.

 

[ratman123]

You could quote British Standard 1297. (Google it if you are unfamiliar with what that is, it’s a standard for T&G softwood flooring)

Section 4 is permitted characteristics and states “Pieces shall be free from unsound knots exceeding 25mm in diameter, and loose knots or knot holes exceeding 10mm in diameter”

The same standard also talks about finished thicknesses, and the table includes 16, 19,21 and 28mm sizes.

The whole business about ex sizes and finished sizes only really applies to sticks of timber and some products, but not finished products like flooring.

 

[oldman2]

Thanks for the reply Ratman, I am unable to find the BS 1297 in full via google without purchasing the document.

I do wonder if that BS would be applied to sheds and outbuildings even when supplied ready built?

I wonder if I have better rights under sale of goods act. I bought retail even though it was at a discounted price and the retailer was also the manufacturer.
Goods should be satisfactory quality....not really
As described...19mm becomes 16mm so again not really
Fit for purpose...arguable a workshed would be expected to get more use/loads than a shed.
Last a reasonable time....well the knots didnt last very long!

 

[oldman2]

I had a nice little chat with a guy from Consumer direct this evening.

He seems to be of the opinion that I should approach the company concerned to make good or replace to my satisfaction the flooring as they have failed under the supply of goods act in that the floor is thinner than specified both on line and in the sales booklet, (not as described) is not of satisfactory quality, (lots of knot holes) and probably not fit for purpose being thinner, knot holed and not able to take the loading that 19mm T&G to BS1297 would when the building is described for sale as a workshed.

I will be contacting the company tomorrow to see if we can reach an amicable solution.

I am of the opinion that a covering of 12mm ply would if glued and screwed make a sound floor, or am I being ott? would 9mm ply have the desired result I wonder. The difference in thickness of 9 to 12mm only equates to around £24 more for the whole 12x20 floor.

 

[big-all]

i would personaly go for 12mm ply as it willtake any weight you throw at it when connected to 16mm txg you could load up with a heavy workbench without bounce 6 or 9mm would not give you bounce free flooring

in respect of recompence settle for payment towards 12mm rather than the full amount in otherwords settle for the cost off 6 or 9mm and pay the other 3 to £6 a sheet assuming they deliver

 

[oldman2]

Telephoned the general manager of the shed company but got nowhere. He insited that 19mm meant 16mm as far as he was concerned and wouldnt entertain reaching a solution to my concerns amicably.

Have sent a formal letter and await any reply to that before proceeding with the next step.

 

[big-all]

i wish you luck but suspect you will have a battle on your hand as its normal to describe it by its pre worked size and has been for centurys

 

[^woody^]

Unless you specified a standard when purchasing, then you may have difficulty in arguing that the shed should have met certain standards.

It will then come down to "fit for purpose".

It is possible that something may not meet a certain standard, but still be fit for its intended use.

I can't think of why a shed should have to meet the same standard as a house, so I would probably not make this argument the main one.

I would concentrate on the "fit for purpose" issue - you expected a 19mm floor to hold certain heavy items which a 16mm floor will not do, for instance.

Then ask the manager what specification for timber machining allows a 19mm deep (not wide) board to shrink to 16mm. I would suspect that there is none, in which case you would rely on an argument based on "custom and practice", which is that the customer when ordering 19mm boards should get 19mm boards.

I would invite the company to explain the specification or practice which allows a 19mm board to shrink by 16% along the radial grain as opposed to across the grain. If they can't, then state that you therefore consider the shed to be sub-standard, and unfit for the use you bought it for, and it has been mis-sold to you.