Fire Extinguishers

[breezer]

yeah, i bet he's a right gas at parties.
I hear when he has one too many he foams at the mouth, last time they had to cover him with a blanket
but now they just water the drinks down form him, usualy while he is looking for some white powder













for those who don't know, ALL words in bold are fire extinguisher related, i have no idea what he is like at house parties.

 

[gcol]

Just abit of additional info if anyones interested...
I work for an oil terminal and we have over 100 extinguishers on site, all of these are serviced twice a year and we change them for new every ten years. I find that modern day extinguishers are very very reliable and in six years of working here I've never known one to fail a service. We also run fire extinguisher courses once a fortnight for new service station personnel where we discharge old extinguishers and again I've never known one to fail. As long as you buy a quality extinguisher with a kite mark ( a contractors Arco bought extinguisher had no kite mark ) and change it after ten years you should be alright....... probably!

You must look after your extinguishers well, you should see the state of some we scrap off after just 12 months service!
I'm thinking that your extinguishers must be of the factory sealed kind, the service engineer cannot refill these. Factory sealed only need an extended service (which basically is a discharge test and internal inspection) after 10 years, whereas regular extinguishers (CO2 excluded) are every 5 years. It's generally not worth the cost of an extended service so most places just replace after 5 years (especially with the prices being so low now with Chinese production).

Incidently, there's no real criteria for scrapping off an extinguisher - it's down to the "opinion" of the service engineer. Sure standards say that the marking should be legible (but how much of the marking needs to be legible to warrant removal from service?). Standards say that bad corrosion means you should remove from service, but what level of corrosion? Same with dents. It's all down to opinion of the engineer and what with them being commission based can lead to the unnecessary scrapping of extinguishers so they can sell you a new one.
Having said this, the engineer is responsible for the extinguishers he services and there are hefty fines if he doesn't service them properly or leaves you with duff equipment that fails to work when required.

Good advice about buying an extinguisher with a kitemark. It costs a small fortune to achieve and maintain the kitemark and you can be assured that you'll be getting a decent bit of kit if it's wearing said kitemark.

Yeah breezer...... I have a flaming good time at parties.

 

[gcol]

carbon dioxide ones should be stretch tested every 10 years...

Yes they should, but to avoid any confusion, stretch testing, hydraulic testing and pressure testing are all the same thing. It's not really cost effective to test them and so are simply replaced after 10 years.

I have some material on fire extinguisher requirements for "the carriage of dangerous goods" that makes interesting reading, I'll post that tomorrow.

If anyone's an employer and wants to know what they should be doing as regards fire safety, you can find it here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20051541.htm

 

[breezer]

I only know about stretch testing because many years ago I won a "fire saftey kit"

I asked could i come and collect it from them, and can i be shown round, the answer was obvioulsy yes, and while there i watched a CO2 being stretch tested (amongst other things)

The company i visited has since moved (to round the corner from me as it happens) and been taken over by a very big company, i "kidde" you not.

so if they still stretch test i have no idea.

I will also say though, to any one reading this (and gcol may confirm) although it may "sound silly" to have a fire extiguisher and fire blanket in your house, its better to have one and never use it, than to want one and you havent got one.

Please also bear in mind fire extinguishers are only "first aid" and you should always call the brigade, but you can stop a small fire becoming a big fire if you have an extiguisher, and smoke damage is often worse than the fire damage

If you do have an extinguisher and or blanket, read the instructions now and learn what each is for

 

[gcol]

... although it may "sound silly" to have a fire extiguisher and fire blanket in your house, its better to have one and never use it, than to want one and you havent got one.
If you do have an extinguisher and or blanket, read the instructions now and learn what each is for

Good advice. Although what is equally important is siting the extinguisher and blanket so that you can quickly get to them. Close to the fire risk, but not too close so that you can't get to it in case of fire. I know they aren't that pretty but every house should have one handy. You can get stainless steel one that look smart but they are expensive.
A foam extinguisher is ideal for the home (having a 2kg CO2 would be useful to cover your electrical items also). I know an ABC dry powder covers more classes of fire, but if you've ever set one off indoors you might think twice about owning one - it goes absolutely everywhere and makes one hell of a mess. You should also be aware that if you are asthmatic, breathing in the fine dry powder could bring you to your knees. Also, because it goes everywhere and literally fills the room, it can sometimes hinder your visibility making escape difficult.

 

[pburch]

If I could choose only one type of extinguisher for home use then it would have to be powder, I'd worry about the cleaning up after the fire was out.

In my experience, and I must admit I can only speak regarding liquid fires, ie:diesel and petrol, ( no experience of chip pans, sorry) dry powder is far superior to everything else and it will put out literally everything.
Foam is second and has the advantage of a cooling effect on a liquid fire and QUALITY modern foam fire extinguishers now have discharge nozzles which seperate the foam particles meaning that you can safely use them on electrical fires! But of course they are not primarily designed for this and the manufacturers state 'for accidental use on electrical fires'.


I,m no big fan of Co2 extinguishers, they obviously have their place but if you've got one then just be aware that outdoors with only a slight breeze blowing they are next to useless, also remember you cannot use them on paper or any other light flammables, they will blow the embers all over the place.

All the best

 

[gcol]

If I could choose only one type of extinguisher for home use then it would have to be powder, I'd worry about the cleaning up after the fire was out.

Well the choice is yours. Dry powder is very effective. Be aware that all dry powder is not created equal though. It depends on the percentage of mono ammonium phosphate - this ranges from 30% to about 70%. Having said that, foam concentrate varies too. We do a high performance 3 litre foam that has the same A rating as our 6 litre foam.

In my experience, and I must admit I can only speak regarding liquid fires, ie:diesel and petrol, ( no experience of chip pans, sorry) dry powder is far superior to everything else and it will put out literally everything.

One of the problems with powder is that it has no cooling effect. Sure it has a fast knock down, but it won't cool embers and so there is a distinct re-ignition possibility. Often a powder extinguisher is used to quickly knock down the fire out then foam is used to make sure it stays out.
Powder will also bu*ger up delicate electronics and so you shouldn't use it on your computer equipment. That's not to say that foam won't cause it will. You want CO2 for this type of thing. You hardly ever find powder in offices - you get foam and CO2 cause powder makes a mess. You won't find powder in commercial kitchens either cause it'll contaminate your food and mean a TOTAL clean up (even for a very small fire) resulting in closure of the kitchen until it's properly clean.

Foam is second and has the advantage of a cooling effect on a liquid fire and QUALITY modern foam fire extinguishers now have discharge nozzles which seperate the foam particles meaning that you can safely use them on electrical fires! But of course they are not primarily designed for this and the manufacturers state 'for accidental use on electrical fires'.

Although foam extinguishers may have passed the 35kV dielectric test, under no circumstances should you use one on electrical fires. As you say, that refers to "inadvertent" use only. In other words, if you're putting out a fire in a waste paper bin, you'll be ok spraying it if there's a photocopier next to it - that sort of thing. If you use foam on an electrical fire you risk standing in a pool of the liquid which could be live.

I,m no big fan of Co2 extinguishers, they obviously have their place but if you've got one then just be aware that outdoors with only a slight breeze blowing they are next to useless, also remember you cannot use them on paper or any other light flammables, they will blow the embers all over the place.

Agreed, CO2 extinguishers are really only useful for electrical equipment, small indoor class B fires and discharging at colleagues.

 

[breezer]

CO2 extinguishers are really only useful for electrical equipment, small indoor class B fires and discharging at colleagues.

for amusemnt value only.

get a hole punch and a CO2 extinguisher.
point the horn up wards and empty the contents of the hole punch into the horn.

operate the extinguisher.
________________________________________________
is it true that in in bygone days foam was made of something to do with pigs blood?

 

[gcol]

Silly breezer.
Of course another disadvantage with CO2 is that at low temperatures it's not very effective. -20°C is about the lowest temp you'll see on a CO2 extinguisher because at that temperature the vapour pressure of CO2 is greatly reduced - meaning that it comes out of the horn slower. It's this reason why CO2 cartridge operated extinguishers are out-performed by stored pressure extinguishers at lower temperatures. In comparisson, the pressure of the nitrogen (used in stored pressure extinguishers) is affected little by temeparture changes.

I've not heard the one about pigs blood breezer, but I believe they used to use hoof and horn in powder extinguishers.

EDIT: Having just Googled, it turns out you're right breezer - they did use blood.
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/society/firefighters.html
Early foam compounds were made from animal blood and were extremely unstable. The compound had to be kept in airtight containers and had a limited shelf life.

 

[breezer]

and you thought i was joking. ( i was told that when i collected my prize)

 

[gcol]

Many of the British Standards I work to are unclear in certain areas, it is therefore open to interpretation as to what they actually mean. A customer wanted to know what extinguishers his vans "should" be equiped with to comply with "the carriage of dangerous goods by road". This was our response - I hope it's of some use.

Interpretation of International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road 1/1/03 Regs (Part 8. – fire fighting equipment)
For goods vehicles, regardless of whether they are carrying dangerous goods or not:
For engine fire protection when carrying no load the extinguisher must be 1 x 2kg ABC (Powder) minimum for protection against fires in cab or engine compartment.

For loaded units the above extinguisher is allowed to be part of the total loaded vehicle requirement as indicated below:
More than 7.5 tonne: Minimum 12kg total including the above 1 x ABC 2kg extinguisher.
Example : 2 x ABC 6kg extinguishers
or 1 x 6kg extinguishers plus 3 x 2kg ABC extinguishers
or 1 x 6kg ABC extinguisher plus 1 x 4kg ABC extinguisher plus 1 x 2kg ABC extinguishers
or 1 x 12kg extinguisher

More than 3.5 tonne up to 7.5 tonne: Minimum 8kg total including the above 1 x 2 ABC extinguisher.
Example : 1 x ABC 6kg extinguisher plus 1 x 2kg ABC unit
Or 1 x 9kg

Up to and including 3.5 tonne: 4kg including the above 1 x 2kg ABC
Examples : 1 x ABC 4kg extinguisher or 2 x 2kg ABC extinguishers.

Most economic compliance:
7.5 tonner : 2 x 6kg ABC
3.5 to 7.5 tonner : 2 x 4kg ABC
3.5 tonner : 1 x 4kg ABC

 

[gcol]

Another word of caution when using dry powder extinguishers.....
I had a distributor on the phone yesterday saying that a customer had put out a fire with a dry powder extinguishers but had got some of the powder on his car and he's now got discolouration to the car paintwork.
Basically, ABC dry powder is mono ammonium phosphate and will not harm paintwork when dry. However, when it gets wet it the ammonia will mark paintwork in the same way that bird lime does. This won't be an immediate effect - ABC powder is treated with moisture resistant chemicals so that it does readily absorb moisture, but over time it will. So a word to the wise folks, if you get any dry powder on your car..... rinse it off sooner rather than later.