Fire Regs in Private Flats

[Makeitgo]

Hi All,

I live in a converted Victorian house which has 4 flats over 2 floors. We are all owner occupiers/leaseholders and each have a share in the freehold.

I was wondering if anyone can help in defining whether my home is subject to any sort fire regulations. In each flat there is an owner, and effectively these are privately owned flats. As far as I’m aware the building is not defined as a House in Multiple Occupation (HMO).

There is a common escape route final exit door (original house front door location) serving the main common hallway and stairs to each of the four flats. Each flat in turn, has its own individual door fitted with the usual night latch Yale lock.

The flats are occupied as follows:

1) Single person owner with another person living in their flat. The other person may or may not be paying them “rent” which I think is relevant under some definitions of dwelling

2) Single person owner

3) A couple (owners)

4) A couple (owners)

So, seven residents in all.

We’ve recently had a flaming saucepan event in the flat below us, which was very scary, so I’m trying to raise fire awareness with the other flats. I’m hoping to let them know what it is mandatory, regarding the need for perhaps a fire assessment, fitting alarms, extinguishers or anything else pertaining to this particular building if I can. Conversely it would be good to know if we don't officially have a responsibility to conform to any specific fire regs although my goal is to get up to spec regardless ASAP.

Thanks.

 

[Bosswhite]

Call or write into your local Fire Station and have a word with the Fire Prevention Officer, they will organise a visit and give advise on Fire Prevention and Legal Requirements

 

[Bosswhite]

Call or write into your local Fire Station and have a word with the Fire Prevention Officer, they will organise a visit and give advice on Fire Prevention and Legal Requirements

 

[Doggit]

What do the other flat owners think. You're not in a HMO, and the regs on flats are a bit uncertain, but the fire safety officer will very likely just recommend smoke detectors in each flat. You could recomend estinguishers in each flat to the others, but they're not madatory, and you could all agree to install an interlinked set of heat detectors, but you wouldn't have smoke alarms in the flats, as setting one off with the toast burning, would cause others unnecessary issues. If you all agreed to a fire alarm, then it'd be heat detecors in the flats, and smoke detectors in the hallway, but they should be tested on a regular basis.

 

[^woody^]

If there was a building owner, with responsibility for the building and common parts, then the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 would apply, in which case depending on when the conversion was done and the standard of the work, a communal fire alarm with interlinked detectors to each flat may be required. Probably an L4 system, but it would depend on a risk assessment of the communal area.

But if this is a solely domestic arrangement, then it would not apply and just be good practice.

That's all that would potentially apply.

The only other thing, would be any conditions set by the insurer of the building.

 

[Makeitgo]

Thanks Bosswhite, I was putting that high on the consideration list and may well do that.

What do the other flat owners think. You're not in a HMO, and the regs on flats are a bit uncertain, but the fire safety officer will very likely just recommend smoke detectors in each flat. You could recomend estinguishers in each flat to the others, but they're not madatory, and you could all agree to install an interlinked set of heat detectors, but you wouldn't have smoke alarms in the flats, as setting one off with the toast burning, would cause others unnecessary issues. If you all agreed to a fire alarm, then it'd be heat detecors in the flats, and smoke detectors in the hallway, but they should be tested on a regular basis.

Thanks Doggit, Slight amendment, two of the floors are sort of split level, so there are seven stairs up from flat 3 to flat 4 (the highest flat) i.e. flat 4 is not a full story above flat 3. Also, can I check with you again that it's not an HMO, I don't mean to doubt you but I gather this is pivotal? I don't think it is from what I've read. Thanks for the info on the fire equipment too, esp heat not smoke strategically installed.

If there was a building owner, with responsibility for the building and common parts, then the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 would apply, in which case depending on when the conversion was done and the standard of the work, a communal fire alarm with interlinked detectors to each flat may be required. Probably an L4 system, but it would depend on a risk assessment of the communal area.

But if this is a solely domestic arrangement, then it would not apply and just be good practice.

That's all that would potentially apply.

The only other thing, would be any conditions set by the insurer of the building.

Woody, thanks. Regarding the building owner, I think I get what you're saying, but just to say that all flats are owned by freeholds and each owner is a director of the Ltd company for a Shared Freehold (collective enfranchisement). So I guess we all have a responsibility for every aspect of the building and common parts in the way a "building owner" would and therefore the RFSO 2005 would apply, although.... FYI, the conversion was done in I think 89/90 ish and it is a solely domestic arrangement.

 

[^woody^]

each owner is a director of the Ltd company for a Shared Freehold

In which case the FSO may apply and you will need to appoint a "responsible person" to manage the fire safety issues and arrange regular risk assessments.

Your local fire safety officer will be able to advise further

 

[Makeitgo]

Woody, thanks. You know what, I'm such a doughnut, I've just been through some paperwork and found that we were fire risk assessed in 2012 upon the sale of one of the flats and awarded a certificate. It says the:
"Fire Risk Assessment Certificate certifies that the freeholders of 23 Sample Street .. has complied with Section 9 (1) of the regulatory Reform (fire Safety) order at their premises at 23 Sample Street..

We were also given a risk assessement report containing action points and recommendations. These only pertained to the common areas (basically the entrance hallway and stairs).

The certificate is obviously out of date now, but hypothethically, as this assessment was done using the FSO (as stated on the certificate) and if the same regulatory order still applies today (the FSO?) and if there have been no changes in the circumstances i.e. no building work done, no change of decor, no new doors or locks installed etc, I wonder if we could get another assessment done to gain an up to date certificate? We would have check we have complied with all the points is in the last assessment report beforehand first obviously.

 

[Doggit]

The Grenfell Tower fire will change most of the fire regs within a couple of years, but for now as you (definitely) aren't an HMO, you'll need emergency lights in the common parts, and smoke seals in the flat doors, but with the caveat of smoke detectors on each floor of the communcal areas.

But you haven't mentioned what comments the FSO made, and were they acted upon.

 

[^woody^]

you'll need emergency lights in the common parts, and smoke seals in the flat doors,

Not necessarily for either.

 

[Doggit]

Fair enough Woody, thanks for the correction.

 

[^woody^]

Fair enough Woody, thanks for the correction.

Done properly, any risk assessment should consider the building and everything as a whole. So certain things may or may not be required depending on other things.

It's a massive annoyance to read risk assessors just lazily recommending every safety precaution under the sun, without considering the risk, the cost, actual use, or the ongoing maintenance.

It was bad enough before the Lakenal House fire then things got silly with risk assessments and over caution, and it's a nightmare now after Grenfel.

 

[Doggit]

I have 3 properties in a selective licencing scheme, and they were fine with smoke detectors in the communal hallway, then when the licensing scheme came in, it had to be upgraded to the emergency lighting and the smoke seals, and then they decided that there had to be the fire alarm system as well. The property next door to me has just been assesed by the management company, and they've definitely done a knee jeck reaction, and they're asking for everything. Fortunately, it's not a requirement, so they're doing the basics, and they'll put the fire panel in when the legislation changes.

 

[Tom Sutton]

Hi All, I live in a converted Victorian house which has 4 flats over 2 floors. We are all owner occupiers/leaseholders and each has a share in the freehold.

We’ve recently had a flaming saucepan event in the flat below us, which was very scary, so I’m trying to raise fire awareness with the other flats. I’m hoping to let them know what it is mandatory, regarding the need for perhaps a fire assessment, fitting alarms, extinguishers or anything else pertaining to this particular building if I can. Conversely it would be good to know if we don't officially have a responsibility to conform to any specific fire regs although my goal is to get up to spec regardless ASAP. Thanks.

If they are self-contained flats then you are not a HMO and the common areas are subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (RR(FS)O) All freeholders are joint responsible persons and have a duty to implement article 8 to 22 of the RR(FS)O which includes a fire risk assessment (FRA). Assuming you do not employ five or more persons then you do not have to record the FRA but you still need to complete one.

The guidance for your premises is FIRE SAFETY Guidance on fire safety provisions for certain types of existing housing.