First floor bedroom hearth

[FlameFoxx]

Hi all,

I have some builders in at the moment to remove my chimney breast, now I am no expert and it looks like they have done a good job, but my front bedroom and rear bedroom used to have a fireplace that was bricked up.

The builders knew this and part of the quote was to remove the bricked up part of the fireplaces and build a stud wall (making the rooms square).
While the floor was open, I've noticed that the hearth is still in from the rear bedroom fireplace and I worry that since it no longer is sat on the ground floor chimney breast, it's going to be unsupported.

Like I said, I know nothing about how a bedroom hearth is supported in a 1930s house, are they supported by the ground floor chimney breast, do they have floor joists running through them? Should I get them to pull it up (they just plastered the ceiling so they'd probably charge me more)? Will it be fine if I just leave it as it?

I'll attach some pictures to give a better idea.

 

[GhostIntMachine]

Like I said, I know nothing about how a bedroom hearth is supported in a 1930s house, are they supported by the ground floor9 chimney breast, do they have floor joists running through them? Should I get them to pull it up (they just plastered the ceiling so they'd probably charge me more)? Will it be fine if I just leave it as it?

I work a lot more on Georgian, Victorian and Edwardian buildings than 1930s stuff, but I'd expect the principles to be the same: hearth stones (flags) if made of solid stone are often bedded onto sand or loose pugging (lime mortar often mixed with whatever they had to hand (e.g. broken bricks, etc) which in turn is supported on thin planking nailed onto laths which are in turn fixed to the sides of the joists to form a sort of tray. There are often a couple of timber stop ends to stop the pugging or sand from flowing out even where the entire floor is pugged From the late Victorian period onwards (c. late 1870s/early 1880s) builders started to use cast in place concrete instead of stone hearths, so yours might be either.

Can't recall coming across any hearthstones which were supported by the chimney - if you think about it that would require the joists to be installed before building the chimney through the opening in the floor framing which would be ruddy awkward for the brickies to do

If the hearth stone is removed ot will be necessary to add a section of floor framing where the hole is and put in a new section of sub-floor. Personally I find them a pain to remove and make good (not to mention very dirty) with the possibility of damaging the lath and plaster (?) ceiling below, but if you don't do it it'll more then likely be the case that the stone either sits proud of the rest of the floor (so you may gave a small flat topped hump in the floor) or it sits below (in which case you may need to level the floor in that area) - they rarely seem to end up flat to the sub floor , so just how much OCD do you have?

 

[FlameFoxx]

When you say cast, did they have like a tray they would install that would be joined to the ajoining wall and the floor joists?

So structurally, I can leave the old hearth in the bedroom without having to worry about it coming down on my head while I watch TV in the room below?

It looks like is close to being level, but I am going to be putting wood laminate down on top of it anyways so, that'll make it easier to look good right?

My biggest issue was the stability of it.

 

[GhostIntMachine]

When you say cast, did they have like a tray they would install that would be joined to the ajoining wall and the floor joists?

Typically they put in a couple of trimmers and left a section of joist out in the middle. They next nailed a couple of 2 x 1in laths to the sides of the laths. Finally the planked across the laths with thin (3/4in or so) softwood planking. This forms a sort of tray a few inches deep which can be filled with concrete or compo (mortar) to form a hearth stone. The details can vary a lot, but the following sketch of one possible arrangement will give you the general idea (crappy sketch I know, but I'm out on site at the moment and it's the best I can do):

So structurally, I can leave the old hearth in the bedroom without having to worry about it coming down on my head while I watch TV in the room below?

Yes, you should be OK.

It looks like is close to being level, but I am going to be putting wood laminate down on top of it anyways so, that'll make it easier to look good right?

You sometimes need to build up the hearth level to the floor (or chisel it down level for that matter). Your underlay should even out minor discrepancies. The only downside is that you can't nail stuff to the hearthstone, like carpet gripper strip, but you aren't fitting carpet so it won't matter

 

[FlameFoxx]

That makes sense. But if the hearth is sat in a tray, why could I see it from the ground floor when looking up? Surely I'd just see the softwood planking that makes up the base of the hearth tray?

 

[FlameFoxx]

I ask the builder and he said that it was tied into the wall, I don't really understand what that means.

 

[GhostIntMachine]

It means that the stone or concrete is built into the wall(?) with one end trapped in the brickwork (in the same way stone steps are often done). Should therefore form the bottom part of the fire surround (?) The queries are because I think the word "wall" should have been "chimney". But i'm not there and I can't see it for myself, although the replacement phone I now have is a lot clearer. The thing us, you now have a big hole which needs filling with joists and sub-floor and if the concrete(?) was originally supported by masonry then leaving half if it in place, supported how?, seems a poor decision. I'd consider hacking the rest of it out then making good the joists and sub-floor

 

[FlameFoxx]

The building work has already been complete. I believe the hearth is sat on the floor joists because the back bedroom hearth extends out a good 2ft from where the old chimney breast used to be.

Also, the picture isnt the clearest, but I think I can see 2 floor joists the hearth is at on.