First Project (Kitchen)!

[Rusty10]

Hi

I am about to embark on my first tiling project and am actually looking forward to it!

We will be laying 600 x 600mm floor tiles and have had 4 cut in half (300 x 600) and intend to use these 8 as splashbacks.

Should I begin the tiling from an end or the middle?
I am thinking I should rest the tiles on the worktops and not leave a gap?
Should I tile past the worktops or stop short or make them flush with the ends?

For the floor:
What would be the best spacing for the floor tiles, 2mm normal?
Best notched trowel to use? (Using Ardex X7G Plus) and fitting UTH?

Any top-tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Cheers!

 

[Richard C]

We will be laying 600 x 600mm floor tiles and have had 4 cut in half (300 x 600) and intend to use these 8 as splashbacks.

Use powder cement addy for walls on that size/weight tile, not tub mix; make sure you prime plaster to avoid reaction between the cement & plaster.

Should I begin the tiling from an end or the middle?

Spacing from the centre is the text book method as it evens things out nicely but it rather depends on the layout. It’s down to individual room/tile layout & tiles being used, sometimes they look better done differently; if in doubt, lay it out first.

I am thinking I should rest the tiles on the worktops and not leave a gap?

Not a good idea, you will create a potential health hazard; nasty bacteria will breed in there apart from creating a great Silverfish colony haven. Leave a 2mm gap & apply a bead of silicone to seal; using grout will crack & it will end up just as bad.

Should I tile past the worktops or stop short or make them flush with the ends?

Don’t stop them short, it will look very odd, either flush (what I tend to do) or slightly beyond. Again, it depends on layout & tiles used; if in doubt, lay it out.

For the floor: What would be the best spacing for the floor tiles, 2mm normal?

2mm is good on walls but floors generally look better with a wide joint grout IMO; I usually use 4mm spacers unless told otherwise. Don’t use white grout on the floor, it gets very dirty after a very short time; grey goes with most but beige is OK as well.

Best notched trowel to use? (Using Ardex X7G Plus) and fitting UTH?

Use a solid bed trowel – curved notches of 20 wide x 10mm approx 28mm centres will give a solid deep bed thickness of around 3-4mm. Your using decent addy, assume grout is equally as good? Have you laid a self leveing screed over the UTH mat?

Any top-tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Have a good read of the tiling sticky & archive posts before you start.
Take your time to understand what your doing, plan well & enjoy

 

[tictic]

ok your tiles are 600x600mm what type of tiles are these?..porcelain/trav/stone etc..

what subtrate is the floor?..will you need insulation boards..??
you may want to look into using a uncoupling membrane..ditra etc..
as your using a ufh(matt/cable)..

as for laying the ufh..
lay it out,check with multimeter.
cover the ufh with a 2 part slc,using a plastic trowel,then again check with multimeter.
check adhesive is the correct for the subtrate and your tiles.
fix tiles and every m2,check with multimeter.
min grout 3mm,again check grout is usable for ufh.

enjoy...

 

[Richard C]

ok your tiles are 600x600mm what type of tiles are these?..porcelain/trav/stone etc..

what subtrate is the floor?..will you need insulation boards..??
you may want to look into using a uncoupling membrane..ditra etc..
as your using a ufh(matt/cable)..

as for laying the ufh..
lay it out,check with multimeter.
cover the ufh with a 2 part slc,using a plastic trowel,then again check with multimeter.
check adhesive is the correct for the subtrate and your tiles.
fix tiles and every m2,check with multimeter.
min grout 3mm,again check grout is usable for ufh.

enjoy...

Tictic has made an excellent job of "grouting" all the remaining unknown spaces

 

[tictic]

always remeber rich...

its all in the preperation mate..substrate/ufh/tiles..etc..etc..etc..my seplling is getting worse than that auld git jc...

600x600mm wont be wanting to fix them myself..(well brokenbond)..

might just be, to many bows in them...(you listen/reading OP)...

lay a few out next to each other and look/feel at the calibration etc of them,what you will find when fixing large format tiles is what we call...shadowing...when tiles are fixed and grouted you will see shadowing(this is caused by the bowing in the tile..large format..usually in the middle of the tile..)thus shadowing in the finish of the fixing/grouting.

 

[vv2806]

Installing UFH is notifiable. Just be aware of that.

 

[Rusty10]

Thank you all very much for your input, much appreciated!

Ok, just to finalise

Prime the walls? What is best to use? We have given the plaster a nice mist coat if that helps?

2mm gap between bottom & worktop & seal - check!

Flush with ends of worktop - check!

Ardex Flex Grout (We have chosen white to go with our 'caramel' semi polished porcelain tiles)? Should we swap to beige?

UFH Mat not laid as yet (This will be on top of 10mm Marmox boards) Will we still need SLC? BC has been notified of UFH

2mm on wall and 4mm on floor it is!

All grout & adhesive is ok with UFH

solid bed trowel with curved notches? Are these easily available or only from tilers merchants?


Great info' and a fantastic place to get help, thanks again

 

[Richard C]

Prime the walls? What is best to use? We have given the plaster a nice mist coat if that helps?

No it hasn’t helped at all really. When tiling over new plaster, you should not paint as tile adhesion will be restricted by how good a bond there is between the paint & the plaster; unless the paint was well thinned, bonding could be very poor. Score the tiled surface thoroughly & prime with this before tiling;
http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/products/prime-apd

Ardex Flex Grout (We have chosen white to go with our 'caramel' semi polished porcelain tiles)? Should we swap to beige?

If you use white grout on the floor it will look dirty & grotty in a very short time, especially in a kitchen. You can use beige but with caramel tiles I think you would be better to go for a grout colour with a darker contrast.

UFH Mat not laid as yet (This will be on top of 10mm Marmox boards) Will we still need SLC? BC has been notified of UFH

Yes, a self leveling screed will protect the cables & leave a nice flat surface ready for tiling. If you don’t use it & the heater mat/sensor ever needs repairing you will never get the tiles up without totally destroying the heater mat. Make sure you thorougly test operation of the heater mat & sensor before tiling over it & don't turn it on in an attempt to speed up drying time.

solid bed trowel with curved notches? Are these easily available or only from tilers merchants?

Use plastic trowels & any decent tillers merchant will have them, even Topps; or you might even get one in B&Q.

 

[Rusty10]

Hi

Thanks for all the help!

No it hasn’t helped at all really. When tiling over new plaster, you should not paint as tile adhesion will be restricted by how good a bond there is between the paint & the plaster; unless the paint was well thinned, bonding could be very poor. Score the tiled surface thoroughly & prime with this before tiling;

We painted a mist coat of 4/1 Supermatt over the plaster, would this be sufficient?

Yes, a self leveling screed will protect the cables & leave a nice flat surface ready for tiling. If you don’t use it & the heater mat/sensor ever needs repairing you will never get the tiles up without totally destroying the heater mat. Make sure you thorougly test operation of the heater mat & sensor before tiling over it & don't turn it on in an attempt to speed up drying time.

SLC would be good however, all the units and island have been installed, how could we use it in our situation? All UFH will be tested throughout to check continuity with a multimeter...

Thanks again, for all guidance

 

[Richard C]

We painted a mist coat of 4/1 Supermatt over the plaster, would this be sufficient?

4:1 (20%) is a bit thick for priming new plaster IMO, I use 25-30%. As I said, you should not have painted prior to tiling, especially with such large/heavy format tiles. I would score the surface to be tiled back to the plaster so the adhesive can get a good bond with the plaster behind rather than just rely on the strength of the paint film; if adhesion is not good, there is a good chance the tiles will fall off, taking the adhesive & paint with them. You could try the “Selotape test” which will give a good guide to paint adhesion. If the paint is not too thick, a very stiff wire brush may work OK as long as it cuts back to the surface of the plaster. You must also prime with APD before tiling.

SLC would be good however, all the units and island have been installed, how could we use it in our situation? All UFH will be tested throughout to check continuity with a multimeter...

It’s important you fit the sensor capsule within an accessible trench so that it can be replaced without disturbing the tiles if it goes TU. The mat is quiet robust & failure is rare unless it’s been damaged by carelessly handling/fitting but I have had a sensor failure within this period so, IMO, these can be a weakest link. With no SLS over the mat, you can forget about any chance or future repair. The main problem with not laying a SL screed over the mat is that you will not have a flat tile surface. You will first have to apply adhesive over the mat (in small sections) to level up to the surface of the mat wire, then apply further adhesive to ridge trowel so you provide a continuous adhesive base under the floor tiles; this is very important with floors. Without a SLS, the adhesive base will be considerable thicker, up from around 4mm to 8 or 9mm depending on the heater mat cable; & it never lays flat or still as you would like. Although not really a problem for the adhesive, if you don’t do it with care, you will get an uneven tile base which will make laying such large format tiles a real challenge for you. As tactic has said even pro tillers need to be careful when laying 600 x 600 tiles; the base needs to be perfectly flat & if the tiles are not perfect it can be a real PITA as you have far less tolerance to play with. You’ve been a bit ambitious for your 1st project but I do hope it works out for you; even some (so called) tillers could easily cock it up.

A basic multimeter continuity test is OK for testing fuses & light bulbs but is pretty meaningless for testing a new circuit installation; a continuity test will only indicate if the mat wire is broken & you would have to be blind not to spot that anyway. The mat installation should be load tested to check the integrity of the insulation &, if a mat is professionally installed, this would be done now & after tiling before a minor electrical works certificate is issued. Unless you’ve advised LABC of the installation on a submission notice & paid for testing, they won’t want to know & many don’t want to know about DIY electric installs anyway. In the absence of proper test equipment, you should check the mat over at least 24 hours with heating/cooling cycles, longer if possible but this will not satisfy LABC. A kitchen (along with bathrooms & external) is classed as a special location & subject to specific installation regulations & LABC will want to see a minor works certificate issued by an approved Part P spark with recorded test results before they will sign it off!

I may be wrong but I have a funny feeling your heater mat installation is not Kosher!