Fitting a fire door in to an existing frame

[Jtbrown]

Are there any tools / techniques for fitting an FD30 fire door into an existing door frame without needing to replace the frame? I've considered using something like a dremel / wood chisel to cut this back to fit the extra width of the fire door.

 

[KenGMac]

Jtbrown, good evening.

It appears that your door is situated within a Georgian / Victorian property??

If so then that door stop will be a [so called] planted door stop, meaning that the door stop that you need to reduce inwidth has bee nailed on to the door frame?

Can I suggest you very, very carefully using a sharp wood chisel very, very gently prize off the door stop, you can then cut to the width you need.

Can I also suggest that you cut the paint between the door stop and the door frame using a new sharp Stanley knife.

I think that your idea of a Dremel could be very difficult to control and get a true straight line which you will find acceptable??

Ken.

 

[Jtbrown]

Jtbrown, good evening.

It appears that your door is situated within a Georgian / Victorian property??

If so then that door stop will be a [so called] planted door stop, meaning that the door stop that you need to reduce inwidth has bee nailed on to the door frame?

Can I suggest you very, very carefully using a sharp wood chisel very, very gently prize off the door stop, you can then cut to the width you need.

Can I also suggest that you cut the paint between the door stop and the door frame using a new sharp Stanley knife.

I think that your idea of a Dremel could be very difficult to control and get a true straight line which you will find acceptable??

Ken.

Thanks Ken, I'll check that out. It is a Victorian property (built in 1903)

 

[johnny2007]

New frame will be a lot easier and comply with regulations.
Fitting a fire door in existing frame will never work unfortunately.

 

[JohnD]

Thanks Ken, I'll check that out. It is a Victorian property (built in 1903)

Edwardian.

 

[KenGMac]

Edwardian.

Just, as I recall, John 22/01/1901 I think?? certainly not my original stab at Georgian??

Some really nice Architraves not really suitable for a new frame? Have had that discussion in Georgian properties in Edinburgh on several occasions, happy days??

If needed an Intumescent strip can be retro-fitted to the frame??

 

[JohnD]

I used to have one.

It saddens me to think of original features being destroyed.

How thick are the original doors?

It's quite hard to groove a frame in situ. Easier to groove out the door edge after fitting it. lift-off hinges are a great boon.

 

[johnny2007]

We're talking highly skilled joinery here.
To adapt that frame and archives with 20 layers of paint on them, to a new fire door of "similar" size will take some skills and might be impossible.
Most likely the finished product won't comply with regulations.
Is there any particular reason to fit a fire door?
If no, where's the existing door?
It might be a lot easier to restore that instead of trying to match 2 completely different products.

 

[conny]

I used to have one.

It saddens me to think of original features being destroyed.

How thick are the original doors?

It's quite hard to groove a frame in situ. Easier to groove out the door edge after fitting it. lift-off hinges are a great boon.

Rise and fall hinges/lift off not permitted on fire doors. See 5th page, 'Additional requirements for hinges intended for use on fire doors.'

https://www.firesafe.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/docs/guide1935.pdf

 

[JohnD]

Rise and fall hinges/lift off not permitted on fire doors. See 5th page, 'Additional requirements for hinges intended for use on fire doors.'

https://www.firesafe.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/docs/guide1935.pdf

You mean like these?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...-100x88x3mm-right-hand-satin-zinc-pair-139999

• Enduro Radius Lift Off Thrust Bearing Hinge - 100 x 88 x 3mm - Right Hand - Satin Zinc - Pair
  
• Suitable for doors up to 80kg
  
• 60 minute fire rating
  
• BS EN Grade 11
  
• Heavy duty - for high use fire doors in public buildings
  
• For interior/exterior use
  
• All our fire door hinges are CE marked
  
• NOTE: Intumescent pads should be used to ensure adherence to fire regulations
  
• 25 year guarantee

Is the organisation quoting from a Building Regulation?

 

[conny]

John, obviously the rise and fall I first thought of are the ones that have a curved shoulder which raise the door as you open it.
The link I posted does give information about suitable hinges for fire doors, (class, grade, etc), but on the fifth page down there is a section titled Table 1 Classification Summary which has the following statement;

"It shall not be possible to remove the hinge pin or separate the hinge element of the door assembly without the use of special tools."

 

[JohnD]

yes, I saw that, but what is the source for that statement?

I have lift-offs on all mine and they are very convenient.

 

[frutbunn]

Why are you fitting fire doors, is it for a loft conversion? Do you have existing solid timber doors?

 

[Jtbrown]

We're talking highly skilled joinery here.
To adapt that frame and archives with 20 layers of paint on them, to a new fire door of "similar" size will take some skills and might be impossible.
Most likely the finished product won't comply with regulations.
Is there any particular reason to fit a fire door?
If no, where's the existing door?
It might be a lot easier to restore that instead of trying to match 2 completely different products.

Why are you fitting fire doors, is it for a loft conversion? Do you have existing solid timber doors?

Yeah that’s correct it’s to pass building regs for a loft conversion. Having to install fire doors throughout the house.

I’d like to avoid replacing all of the frames but it might be a more sensible option!

 

[johnny2007]

No, trust me it's a lot easier to fit new frames and new doors.
It's a once in a lifetime expense.