Fitting internal doors - A daft solution?

[moot67]

Hello,

I'm having to replace some old warped internal doors and architrave etc... so I'm having some made from oak.

Ideally I'd get someone in to fit the new doors, but I've been let down by plumbers, builders and plasterers so far, and I don't want to risk another disaster. I know that doing this myself may end up that way, but I'd like to reduce the risk as much as possible.

The room had to be replastered (nightmare!) so it's fairly bare at the moment: no skirting, wallpaper etc...

The new doors will be 5mm thicker than the old ones, so I've removed the door stops and stripped the frames back down to the bare wood.

The frames are fairly old and not too bad but not 100% square (about 2-3mm out from top to bottom). The internal frame sizes are all about 765x1990x130.

If I try to adjust the new doors to the frames, it could get messy (and expensive).

so... my idea was to:

Get the doors made 16mm narrower than the frame (and 18mm shorter) and get the hinges and latch fitted to the doors by the door builder.

Glue and screw a strip of pine 6mm thick on the hinge side (adjusting it so its 100% vertical)

Hang the door with longer screws going right into the existing frame.

Fit more strips on the top and latch side of the frame, adjusting them until they fit the door.

Fit the doors stops and architrave (covering the joins), fill any remaining gaps, and paint.

****************

I know it's a very amateurish approach, but could anyone tell me why it wouldn't work ?

Thanks very much

 

[JFC]

The 6mm timber will want to cup and may split , also your architrave wont have a good fixing to it . If you are going this way i would use 18mm timber and put in a whole new frame ( your architrave will hide the old frame ) Bit of a long winded way to hang a door but each to thier own i spose .

 

[JohnD]

or you might take out the old frame, and re-fix it. You can pack it to shape with fireproof foam or wooden wedges.

 

[moot67]

Thanks JFC and JohnD,

JFC:
I totally agree that it's a long-winded way to go about it.

When I've hung doors in the past, it's taken me almost a day to get each one right, especially when taking a square door and trying to reshape it to fit it in a frame thats even slightly askew.

But at least those doors were painted, so any mistakes could be filled and covered. I think it'd be a bit ambitious of me to try to fit an oiled oak door without this safety net.

This time the only bit that can be filled and painted is the frame.

Do you think that 6mm wood would still cup/split if it were pva'd to the original frame ?

JohnD:
I thought about replacing the frame but after reading posts on this forum it seemed like an easier job to try to fix the one that's there. Maybe it'd be worth getting the doors made prefitted into new frames and then replace the whole lot?

 

[JohnD]

I don't really understand the problem. Four minutes with a crowbar, bolster and a big hammer will get the old frame out, it will take you longer to clean up the dust and splinters. You can patch up any loose bricks or cracks with sand and cement.

then you can fix in a new (or the old) frame, nice and square, packed and screwed to the wall, and (now available) the gap filled with hard-setting fireproof foam which you can tack the architrave over for neatness.

"Bish, bosh" I believe is the saying

Arting around with your fillets and glue will take longer and give a worse job.

 

[joe-90]

I wouldn't practice on a set of oak doors if I were you. Doors are far trickier to hang than you'd imagine. Better waiting for a joiner.

 

[Scrit]

Don't f*nny about cobbling up the job! Pull-out the casings and reset them square or replace them, that way you should be able to rehang at least two in a day!

Scrit

 

[moot67]

The frames are out by about 2 to 3mm top to bottom, which is enough to have to hack bits off a door. I don't think that I could possibly fit a new frame in place and expect it to be as accurate as that, let alone better.

After the money I've already wasted on cowboy builders etc.. so far, theres no way I'm going to trust anyone to fit them for me. The only other option is to get someone who can supply and fit factory made doors, so that if they b*gger up the fitting they can replace the doors. But I've had Quotes from 2 companies in Edinburgh and both have been £750 for 3 cr*ppy oak veneered doors and £750 fitting.

 

[big-all]

2 or3 mm is a very small amount to be out

is he making the doors to yours or his measurements!!!!

is he making the doors to the opening size or opening minus 4mm!!!!

you will have to shave the doors to fit any way

never ever plan to plant on anything smaller than 12mm[more if you need to plane to fit]

if your paying around £200 for a door why not get him to fit properly at whatever cost!!! should only be around £60 on top if he made the door

 

[moot67]

the bespoke ones are solid oak and around £400 per door, which is why it would be a little upsetting to have someone bodge the fitting and b*gger them up .. this town is full of very expensive cowboys, and I don't know anyone that can recommend a joiner.

Unfortunately the door maker lives 200 miles away and can't do the fitting himself.

Thanks for all your help everybody, it's saved me from going about it the wrong way. I'm not sure what to do, but the jobs got to be done so I'll figure something out.... and it'll probably involve a bucket of filler somewhere along the way.

Thanks again.

 

[Scrit]

.... and it'll probably involve a bucket of filler somewhere along the way.

But isn't that what the cowboys use?

 

[moot67]

As long as its structurally ok, looks right, and lasts, I don't mind how it's done or how long it takes me to do it. Well, within reason obviously, my bathroom looks great but it took me over 9 months to complete (I hate tiling) ... and I had to do that myself because the plumber ripped out the old bathroom suite and then had "personal problems" that meant that neither he nor his tiler and plasterer could come back!!

The plasterers that reskimmed our living room seemed to have trouble getting it to stay on the walls for more than a week and then eventually just stopped returning my calls. Had to get another plasterer to take the lot off and do it again and even then it wasn't much better than when we started, so I ended up sanding lumps and filling holes to get it looking reasonable.

And... the best one yet....the last lot of builders we had in tried to put a pipe chase in our adjoining wall and broke through the corner of next doors lounge !! But rather than admitting the mistake and making it right, they decided to put a piece of plywood in the back of hole so that they could still leave the new pipe chase intact !! I didn't even find out until the neighbours came round to ask about the new feature that had appeared in their living room.

so... filler really is the least of my worries.

 

[Scrit]

It was just that solid oak then filler seems a bit of a wasted effort.

I take your point about the standard of work by some people, though.

Scrit

 

[moot67]

I shan't be putting any filler on the doors unless something *really* awful happens.

If I can help it I'll find a way of adjusting, planing,sanding etc... the frame to fit the door (and that may need the filler).

I know it sounds like a stupid way of doing it, but I'm not a joiner and its really about risk reduction. If I make a mess that is unrecoverable, then a new frame is relatively cheap.

It'll take a few weeks for the doors to be done, but I'll let you know how it all turns out.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[ABN]

Just an idea, proberly to late a rather silly but...

If your having the doors made for you then perhaps they could be adjust to suit whilst being made.
Get a sheet of hardboard and cut it to fit the door frame exactly. Get a large sheet of stiff paper. Lay the hardboard on it and cut around it. Rolling up put in a cardboard tube and send off to the manufactuer. Explain that this is the exact size of the opening and they will need to allow for the required gaps.

You could also mark the position of the existing hinges, supply the hinges you want to use and they could make the appropriate cutouts.

You will need a good line of communication to ensure they understand what you want.