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Fitting strobes within Mains Smoke alarm system

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Chunkytfg, 17 Sep 2019.

  1. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    Does anyone have any experience of fitting Strobes to a Domestic Smoke alarm system?

    My GF is profoundly deaf so cannot hear high frequencies like smoke alarms and telephone ringers etc.

    We need to fit new Mains powered smoke alarms to the house as part of its renovation and I was wondering if anyone has experience of the way the strobes are powered and triggered and if they could be linked via the interconnection wire between the Smoke alarms themselves?

    We were planning on Using the Fire Angel WST-230 alarms as they can then be linked to the Wireless vibrating pads that go under her pillow that the Fire Brigade will supply. I appreciate that these pads come with a Strobe unit already attached but they will only be in her bedroom so we were hoping there was an alternative solution for the rest of the many rooms that will also require alarms fitting.
     
  2. RF Lighting

    RF Lighting

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    Have a look for a relay interface unit. This connects to the smoke alarm 3 core and allows you to switch what ever you require on or off in the event of the alarms activating.

    I have installed the aico brand of this with their smoke alarms. I’m not sure if fire angel do them, or if you can connect the vibrating pad to the aico radio kit.
     
  3. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    Perfect thank you. I will have a look
     
  4. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    Okay so something like this .

    https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/relay-sockets/4009130/

    with one of these on it .

    https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/0351588/

    could be used to switch on one of these

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Produc...xbqESnmNhmVnOiExvrHfEptvyUrni1pMaAi5nEALw_wcB

    Powered by

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...aFO0L3cxtNFEsxRzKN4aAlvYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

    So switch wire from Smoke alarm operates Relay. Bell transformer then feeds Strobes and away we go!

    Might be seem bit crude but could be made to work well and all mounted up on a din rail in its own little case could look quite smart
     
  5. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    Not sure thats going to work! Need to find out what the voltage on the interconnect wire is so I can find the correct relay type.

    The one I found up there is a 24v DC pick up which is unlikely to work!
     
  6. SFK

    SFK

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    Chunky,
    I am always shocked buy how complex and massively expensive it is to get Strobe lights for smoke alarms. I guess everyone is litigation over-conscious.
    When I look at the AICO it seems simple to have a 'mount' unit that sits under the smoke alarm and uses teh 240V and sensor wire to trigger a round strobe across the ceiling.

    Or a stand alone alarm that listens out for the high pitched alarm signal.

    But I have never seen one.

    Did you ever consider using these with the sensitivity turn right down so only set off by the noisy smoke alarm? But likely to go off whenever a door slams
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Latta-Alvo...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


    Or take apart one of these and see if it works on your system:
    https://www.safelincs.co.uk/kidde-s...MI_4amhtPY5AIVieh3Ch0uagbOEAQYAiABEgLAzvD_BwE

    Or this one
    https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei128r-hard-wired-relay-module/
    https://www.electrical2go.co.uk/aic...MI0dWbs9zY5AIVF4jVCh1twwcmEAQYCiABEgK-nfD_BwE

    And there is this that runs on 12V:
    https://www.acornfiresecurity.com/r...MI0dWbs9zY5AIVF4jVCh1twwcmEAQYFCABEgIE3_D_BwE

    The issue with all of these is that the 'fire' signal that is provided by your smoke alarm might be different from all of these. And worse, you may detrimentally effect the signal wire by adding a non approved sensor.

    SFK
     
  7. RF Lighting

    RF Lighting

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    https://www.aico.co.uk/product/ei128r-hard-wired-relay-module/

    This is the aico relay module. It can mount either directly under one of the alarms, or in a loft for example.

    It has everything you need barring a 230V strobe which are easy to obtain. It looks like fire angel do a similar product, although their technical info is a little lacking.

    I’ve had the aico module in my house for donkeys years and it works perfectly. Mine switches on the emergency lights to maintained mode if the detector is activated, and sends a signal to the burglar alarm monitoring equipment.
     
  8. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    SFK, Thank you for your help.

    I agree its really not an easy thing! you'd think more manufacturers would have Strobes as part of the smoke alarm as standard. Especially when they are mains powered!

    Our biggest problem is that ontop of my GF being deaf so actually needing the strobe and vibrating pad the work we are having done involves putting a staircase up to the loft ready for a future Loft conversion so our options are either compartmentalisation with Fire doors all the way up and down the house or a mains powered linked early warning system with an alarm in each habitable room.

    Doors are obviously expensive especially with a GF who doesn't just want any old doors so the alarm system seemed the best idea as we were going to need them anyways.

    Almost the biggest issue is the fact they need to be mains powered and that the need for the vibrating pad for her pillow makes our choices really limited. Aico or fire angel are the only two that do them and if we go down the Fireangel route then the Firebrigade will supply the expensive pillow pad and strobe for the bedroom.

    As much as we could just buy a couple more Strobe/pad systems to mount round the house they are £100 each so when you're already spending best part of £500 of smoke alarms as they also have to be the Wi-fi ones for the pillow pad if there is a way of making a £12 strobe from TLC do the same thing for an almost fraction of the cost then i'll investigate it!
     
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  10. Chunkytfg

    Chunkytfg

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    That aico module could be spot on. Thank you swell as SFK who also suggested it.

    Might just price up all the various solutions and see what I looks the best/simplest
     
  11. SimonH2

    SimonH2

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    Problem with the relay modules is that they rely on the mains being present to power whatever they control.
    With a previous hat on I'm fairly certain they had some strobes powered by the sensor bus (and hence bybthevpanel battery) - but that was on an industrial system.
    Might be worth speaking to Aico - you can't be the first with this problem. With modern high power and high efficiency LEDs, you'd think it would be fairly easy for them to do something that woulf fit under a sensor/alarm head in the same way as the relay module.
     
  12. OwainDIYer

    OwainDIYer

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    The Aico relay modules have Volt free contacts – (Normally Open or Normally Closed) so could switch a battery-powered load, but I don't know if the relay module will activate at all in the absence of mains power (ie if it can work off power on the IC wire from a battery-powered sensor).
     
  13. SimonH2

    SimonH2

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    They have a battery backed version. I suppose it wouldn't take much effort to hack the system to use the backup battery for a light load (eg strobing LEDs), but I doubt Aico would support that ;)
     
  14. OwainDIYer

    OwainDIYer

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    They probably wouldn't, but easy enough to stick something like this on the front and wire in to the relay

    https://evaq8.co.uk/emergency-led-flare.html?category_id=31

    Equivalents probably available from Bang Good or Ali Baba from 99p inc postage.
     
  15. Adam_151

    Adam_151

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    Thing is with a 230v strobe is that you loose it in a power failure, I guess if the strobes are considered neccesaary device then it would drag it down from grade D to grade E....

    Could use 12v strobes with a boxed 12v alarm psu with backup battery, probably be good idea to wire the 12v links in FP.... (or pyro if you're rob!)
     
  16. SimonH2

    SimonH2

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    LEDs are such that they can replace real strobes in nany situations. Besides which, real strobes can be run from low voltage DC with an inverter - like the "listen to the whine, wait for the red light" photographic flash guns.
    I'd be really really tempted to see what voltage the battery was in the battery backed relay unit - and then look for an LED strobe circuit to work off that. A little drilling of the case to fit the LEDs and you've got a mains interlinked battery backed alarm strobe.
     
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