fixing floating shelves to solid wall with metal anchor screws

[Paul Heaney]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently attempting to install a couple of Ikea 'LACK' floating shelves, but am having difficulty with the screw fixings (metal anchors) not sitting securely in the wall, and could do with a bit of advice.

The shelves are intended to be fixed to the wall by securing a bracket to the wall with screws, with the shelf then slotting onto metal tubes projecting from the bracket.

The wall I have chosen is a dividing wall between two adjoining houses (i'd guess 1960s built, in London, UK). It's clearly a solid wall, from the feel and sound when tapping it, however I'm not sure what the specific structure is. - it's covered in quite thick wallpaper, and seems to have a fair depth of plaster before encountering brickwork.

I bought some metal anchor screws (see images linked below), which I planned to secure the bracket into.

having drilled a small (4mm) pilot hole, I screwed in the anchor screws, and despite going in flush to the wallpaper, they never get even slightly tight and are both able to spin in the hole, as well as being easily pulled straight out.

it appears that what I'm screwing into is very soft plaster, which is just being torn apart by the screws. Drilling the holes was pretty easy most of the way, but I definitely hit brickwork at the back.

I'd be very grateful for some advice on:

- are these the most appropriate fittings for this application?
- if not, what should I use to attach something to this wall?
- do I need to use something longer, and go deeper into the brickwork? (I'm not sure how easy this will be with the drill I have, which is not a hammer drill / ideal for proper masonry work)

I don't have a great deal of experience with this sort of thing, but I think the problem is the amount of 'soft' material in front of the solid wall - the red-ish plaster seems to be very crumbly and loose.
the opposite wall is clearly hollow (although I haven't drilled it yet, and am not sure of its exact composition either) - might it be easier to fit these to that wall? - it's not my preference, but if it's infinitely easier I'd consider it.

If i need to give up on the current wall, any advice on filling and finishing it to get rid of the holes I've created is also very welcome!

The link below includes a few pictures of the screws, the wall and the hole they have created, which hopefully will help someone to work out what the composition of the wall is!

http://imgur.com/a/spwaV

Many thanks for any advice.

Paul.

 

[motorbiking]

Longer fixing to go deaper in to the wall. I use the Philips frame fixings from toolstation - they are pretty good and under £2 for a pack of 10. it would help to know what kind of wall you are drilling in to.

You may have to size up now if the hole is too wide

see: http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61889

what you've shown in your pic is a plaster board screw designed to go in to plaster board not a plaster wall on brick.

Also hammer drill doesn't have to cost a lot, but is very handy.. Personally I'd recommend one of the Makita li-ion kits which are cordless and comprise of a hammer drill and separate impact driver. You wont get much change from £150 each but they very useful.

 

[Paul Heaney]

Thanks Motorbiking!

I'm not sure what kind of wall it is (I've not got a great deal of experience with this) - I can tell that it is ultimately solid brick, but as I say, drilling most (if not all) of the depth I needed for the metal anchor screws (about 1.5 inches) was easy going and appears to be straight into red-ish plaster.

Going deeper might help, but I'm not convinced the drill I have (Bosch PSR 14.4) is actually going to be able to make much serious progress into the solid bricks.

I do wonder if the relatively wide anchor screws were a mistake here (I got them planning for a plasterboard wall) - maybe a smaller hole, with more traditional plastic rawlplug would fare better?

I've also thought about filling the holes with epoxy anchor gel, and dropping the metal anchor screws back into that?

final option is to ditch this and put the selves on the plasterboard wall instead.

 

[motorbiking]

you need a hammer drill to get in to the brick - otherwise you will be there all day. No amount of glue is going to make this work on a conventional plaster wall as you are drilling into something that is about as strong as dried mud. the fixings you have are designed to anchor to a plaster board wall.

you could try packing and gluing, but my money is on this ending up with a bigger hole and still as loose. I'd spend a bit of money on a hammer drill (a corded no brand one will do) and some longer fixings or use what you have on the plaster board wall you refer to, but then you needs some patching plaster to repair what you've done on the other wall.

 

[SammyInnit]

Those plasterboard fixings you posted Op, the 'pig tails', are useless for such an application regardless of what you're fixing in to.

Force applied to your shelf, with the wall being the pivot point, will simply cause these to pull out. People may disagree but it's simply not a chance id consider. They're only really good(if at all) for low profile fixtures that won't be load bearing.

If it's brick behind it I'd use some good hammerfix screws. If it's going to carry a lot of weight I might even go the route of rawl bolts.

Both of these are only good if they are in brick, not a mortar joint.

 

[motorbiking]

You make a good point about the pivot point given its a floating shelf. Though if you are lucky you might find a wood stud to screw in to.

 

[Paul Heaney]

Thanks guys - I appreciate the help, and useful to learn.

I got some 1.5" 8-guage screws and red rawlplugs - if i can drill the holes appropriately, these should be a better job? (the largest shelf is relatively light-weight and about 1m long, with 10 screw holes on the bracket...)

Alternatively, i feel like the plasterboard wall might be the easier solution, but if the 'pigtail' anchors aren't a good idea for this - and I take your point about the pivot forces - then what would be the best solution for attaching to that wall? - I don't have a stud detector unfortunately...

Cheers.

P.

 

[endecotp]

i feel like the plasterboard wall might be the easier solution, but if the 'pigtail' anchors aren't a good idea for this - and I take your point about the pivot forces - then what would be the best solution for attaching to that wall?

Find the studs. You don't need a detector; just tap on the wall. Confirm by drilling small holes.
Then screw into the studs with big long screws.

 

[SammyInnit]

You make a good point about the pivot point given its a floating shelf. Though if you are lucky you might find a wood stud to screw in to.

If there is timber studding where it's being installed and it lines up nice with the bracket, I'd certainly opt for that.

Thanks guys - I appreciate the help, and useful to learn.

I got some 1.5" 8-guage screws and red rawlplugs - if i can drill the holes appropriately, these should be a better job? (the largest shelf is relatively light-weight and about 1m long, with 10 screw holes on the bracket...)

Alternatively, i feel like the plasterboard wall might be the easier solution, but if the 'pigtail' anchors aren't a good idea for this - and I take your point about the pivot forces - then what would be the best solution for attaching to that wall? - I don't have a stud detector unfortunately...

Cheers.

P.

I've attached a picture. I swear by these where fitting anything to plasterboard walls. There is a Rawl brand applicator gun that makes these much easier to install. You don't need it, you can do without, but I have one so when I do use them it's very handy to have. Also look at the link to youtube that shows you how to use them.

Search, 'Rawl Plasterboard Expanding Anchors'

 

[motorbiking]

I have used these as a last resort too, once you've properly screwed the board up and made a hole big enough to run a pipe through