Floor joists help with installing

[Landocalrisian]

Hi we have paid a small fortune to replace all our floor joists in a large room.
Anyway they have in stall one joist in one piece but he said it was very difficult to get in so he’s now cutting them all in half and resting them on a small wall in the middle of the room

is this the done thing? Will the floor be strong and steady?
Any advice appreciated

also does it matter there is lots of debris in the subfloors space?

many thanks I can’t put a picture on to show

 

[Landocalrisian]

Should be some pictures

 

[Deleted member 174758]

TBH I don't see why your carpenter simply didn't cut the joists to length pass the joists through the window. Yes, you can rest the joists on a pygmy wall in the middle like that, it's just that if the joists were sized for the full span you've potentially paid for deeper joists than you now need

is this the done thing? Will the floor be strong and steady?

Well, it's a very old technique that you see in Victorian houses, but it's not something I'd expect to see in a modern house. Does that wall actually have concrete footings or a concrete pad beneath it?

also does it matter there is lots of debris in the subfloors space

That is just poor practice. I was always taught to remove debris from beneath sub floors and in attics. The Bradford City FC fire many years ago highlighted the danger of allowing combustible debris to accumulate in structural voids and should be a lesson to all builders

 

[Landocalrisian]

Thank you so much for your replies. This is how he left it today. When he comes back tmw I will ask about the debris as when I asked him today he said it would be extra insulation !

He could get the long joist into the room he said it was too difficult to put it into the hole in the wall it would be easier if he cut it in 2. I just thought it was odd

thanks eveyone

 

[Landocalrisian]

Oh and no I don’t think that wall has concrete footings or even very steady as looks like bricks can be easily removed

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If he couldn't get the joists into the masonry pockets he could always have fixed timber ledgers to the walls (using shield anchors or resin anchors) with joist hangers nailed onto the ledgers to carry the joists

BTW, is that sleeper wall built using mortar, or are they just loose bricks?

 

[Notch7]

Those joists don't look very big -what are they? I'm guessing 6" x 2" (150 x 50).

If so that's too small a section for spanning that room.

Why is the floor being replaced?

I'm not sure if it's still a current rule, but if you take up over 25% of a floor, it has to be fully insulated to current building regs....so your builder can't just choose what insulation he wants.

 

[Landocalrisian]

The Pygmy wall does have a gesture of mortar but it is so old (1930 house) and bricks gapped for vent most of it is shot and the bricks are now loose. I feel a bit better prepared to challenge him tmw. Thanks

 

[Landocalrisian]

Notch7 I’m not sure of the size but they looked similar to the original ones.
The insulation u can see has come from the cavity wall, we can’t stop them coming out! He is going to put in the usual insulation. But said he will leave the foam balls. I was worried about air circulation as the sub floor will be full of it and no space for air

 

[Landocalrisian]

We had wood worm and some joist were completely rotten so best to replace everything

 

[Notch7]

The Pygmy wall does have a gesture of mortar but it is so old (1930 house) and bricks gapped for vent most of it is shot and the bricks are now loose. I feel a bit better prepared to challenge him tmw. Thanks

The best option is to do joists in one span and knock down the sleeper wall.

If the joists span wall to wall they are connected to the house foundation....unlike the sleeper wall which could just be sitting on soil which may move over the seasons.

220x 50 will do a 5 metre span

Surely the builder who quoted must have considered access?

 

[Notch7]

Notch7 I’m not sure of the size but they looked similar to the original ones.
The insulation u can see has come from the cavity wall, we can’t stop them coming out! He is going to put in the usual insulation. But said he will leave the foam balls. I was worried about air circulation as the sub floor will be full of it and no space for air

Ah ok.

Suspended floors need insulating between the joists, leaving the void below clear.

Typically celetex insulation is used or possibly fibreglass held in place by chicken wire or netting.

A minimum 150mm clear space is needed for air flow through the floor.
There is also a need for sufficient vents

 

[Landocalrisian]

I didn’t think of that. I’ll ask him tmw

 

[Landocalrisian]

He quoted us for Celetex. But now I’m more confident I’ll insist the debris is removed thanks

 

[cdbe]

That floor will bounce and wobble around, those joists are too small for that clear span so you're actually better off with that wall if you have to keep them (ideally in sound condition and with a timber wall plate on top to fix the joists too) - make the builder do this, the wall plate is important to fix all the joists to rather than those rubbish bits of packing, it will also help level them up - they're probably all uneven.

I'm not sure it's the "builders' fault (unless he carried on pulling joists out after the first pocket started leaking) but that's a lot of CWI to have lost from your wall and it might be worth looking into getting it "topped up".

You'd be mad not to get underfloor insulation installed while you have such good access.

However this is resolved, you should end up with a floor that feels "rock solid" when you jump up and down on it and should be virtually flat (a length of new skirting board across the floor in any direction should should have no big (more than 10mm) gaps or upstands.