Flooring job nightmare, am I crazy?

[robodelfy]

I posted a bit about this recently but it got worse. Just looking for opinions

I got a quote for laying Karndean in my kitchen and bathroom. I went around with a 1m straight edge and found 10/12mm dips in the kitchen, the guy said some latex levelling compound would sort it out.

I also asked him if the old floorboards in the bathroom were flat enough, he said yeah he's seen much worse, and 6mm ply will deal with it. So I believed him, even though I was sceptical. He put 6mm ply on the bathroom floor, then laid the tiles and there was a noticeable hump, 8mm over about 30cm. I complained and he said it's just old floors, and he doesn't deal with sorting sub floors. I was under the impression any floorers job is to sort the sub floor.

So he said I could rip it up and we'd call it quits on the bathroom. So I spent a couple of hours ripping it up, taking to the dump, and decided I'll learn to how tile it myself with ceramic.

He also latexed the kitchen. I sent him photos after of some 8mm dips in the kitchen over 1m. He said again it's an old house you'll never get it totally flat. He said he was just getting the floor smooth to lay on, not level all over.

He was clearly frustrated thinking I'm an awkward customer, and I'm being made to feel crazy for wanting a relatively level floor. He kept saying how he's doing the job super cheap...but I never asked for that, I just wanted it done properly. I didn't ask him to cut corners.

He came today to lay, and we had some conflict over the floor. I put a chair on it in various places and it rocks from corner to corner. Surely that's not ok?

Then he said you'd need to use deep fill to get it level, and that would be another £600. Why didn't he tell me this at the start?

It's not a nice conflict. It could be put down to a misunderstanding, that I thought he would level the floor and he never intended to. But I did ask. Maybe I should have got things in writing.

I also called Karndean and another local company, who said prepping the sub floor is more than half the job.

I said if he wants to walk away I don't mind. So he said he's going to charge me for the tiles and the latexing he did. Although if I'm now to get another layer of something to get it level, this latex is kind of useless.

Am I being a difficult customer? Or should he being trying to get the floor reasonably level, or at least be clear with me that it wouldn't be level. I'm no expert

Any advice would be great. I don't know what to do next, I'm sure I could lay the tiles myself, but I'm not sure what to use to level the floor completely, or whether I'm capable of doing it. Dips of about 8/9mm over 1mm. Karndean says aim for 4mm over 2m.

He also said that with my 1m level I can't really tell how unlevel it is, I'd need something longer. I argued that if its not level over 1m then it's not level over anything longer, and it's worse over a shorter span. Am I wrong?

Feeling pretty ****ed off, and it's a big set back I didn't need now! Appreciate all the help on this forum

 

[johnny2007]

Without levelling the floor there will always be problems.
Floor tiles in the bathroom over dodgy old boards and 6mm ply is a no no.
All floor boards must be solid, loose ones must be screwed down so to have a firm surface.
12mm marine ply is standards practice, ticker if needed.
Self levelling compound can be used if the floor at this point is still uneven.
Then tiling becomes easy, durable and perfect.
Laminate floors are more versatile and forgiving, but if the customer is after a perfectly flat floor, new floorboards or other flooring boards should be used.
I always found it important to let customer know what I was going to do so to justify higher quote in some cases of poor subfloor.
I always preferred to walk away from jobs where customer wanted cheap and quick as I don't like being called back.
You haven't been unreasonable, especially with the bathroom tiles.
Kick him out, cut your losses and employ a proper tradesman.

 

[robodelfy]

Without levelling the floor there will always be problems.
Floor tiles in the bathroom over dodgy old boards and 6mm ply is a no no.
All floor boards must be solid, loose ones must be screwed down so to have a firm surface.
12mm marine ply is standards practice, ticker if needed.
Self levelling compound can be used if the floor at this point is still uneven.
Then tiling becomes easy, durable and perfect.
Laminate floors are more versatile and forgiving, but if the customer is after a perfectly flat floor, new floorboards or other flooring boards should be used.
I always found it important to let customer know what I was going to do so to justify higher quote in some cases of poor subfloor.
I always preferred to walk away from jobs where customer wanted cheap and quick as I don't like being called back.
You haven't been unreasonable, especially with the bathroom tiles.
Kick him out, cut your losses and employ a proper tradesman.

Thanks. I'm not after a perfectly flat floor, but 8mm over 1m and a chair that rocks seems unacceptable to me.

For the kitchen, if there are still these 8mm dips over 1m, what would be the best product to level it all out? And do you think I could do it with one person helping me?

As in already at a loss, if I can do it myself and get a good result is like to try

Also considering laying the LVT tiles myself, what do you think? If the floor is flat, its just a case of sticking them down, so it's all about the layout and carefully cutting out details, but if I take the skirting off then I should have 20mm play at the edges for minor mistakes!

 

[robodelfy]

I also just realised there is not gap under most of the skirting, and it's not exactly straight eveywhere. They didn't mention this, but if they had just layed the LVT, there would have been a few mm gaps in various places between the edge of the board and the skirting. I very much doubt they'd be scribing each board to get a perfect fit.

So I will probably take off the skirting now and replace it after the job is done, once I work out how to do it!

 

[johnny2007]

Don't know how good you are at diy, it's not a difficult job.
Document yourself with many videos and if stuck ask here.
Don't be in a rush.
I use bal flexible levelling compound.
Tiles need a bit more than stick them down.
Watch a few videos.

 

[dazlight]

1st things is 12mm ply isn’t the Standard at all. Most sub floors get 6mm flooring grade plywood or maybe 9mm. But which ever it is it won’t level your floor.

Fibre screeding compounds do. We tend to check levels then price for ply and smoothing compound to get it flat and level. Not cheap but the best way.

 

[johnny2007]

You can't use fibre screeding compound on floorboards.
Total fail.
6mm is too thin, but I admit, my standards are the ones of many moons ago when we use to do things to last.
I can chew 6mm plywood without my dentures

 

[robodelfy]

Don't know how good you are at diy, it's not a difficult job.
Document yourself with many videos and if stuck ask here.
Don't be in a rush.
I use bal flexible levelling compound.
Tiles need a bit more than stick them down.
Watch a few videos.

Thanks, I'm fairly handy and quite obsessive! So I can do most things I put my mind to. I just know some things are better left to the pros like plastering where I never got the finish I wanted!

 

[robodelfy]

You can't use fibre screeding compound on floorboards.
Total fail.
6mm is too thin, but I admit, my standards are the ones of many moons ago when we use to do things to last.
I can chew 6mm plywood without my dentures

I'm actually wondering what to do on the kitchen floor, which these guys latexed but still has 8mm undulations. What would you use on top of latex compound to get everything level?

 

[johnny2007]

Bal self levelling compound sticks to almost everything.
Speak to their technical helpline tomorrow to confirm and for more advice.

 

[Keithmac]

I leveled as I laid the tiles in our kitchen (the were ceramic tiles though).

 

[dazlight]

You can't use fibre screeding compound on floorboards.
Total fail.
6mm is too thin, but I admit, my standards are the ones of many moons ago when we use to do things to last.
I can chew 6mm plywood without my dentures

totally wrong. You can. Just got to know what you are doing. 6mm ply has come along way in the last 5 years. Marine ply is old hat mate.

 

[johnny2007]

Would you prefer 6 or 12mm ply in your own home?
I used 12mm in mine, for the sake of a few quid.

 

[dazlight]

I have Sp101 on my 2 bedrooms 6mm with feather finish screed. Both rooms are flat as I sanded them and got them ready before the ply went down.

That and FG1 are the only flooring grade plywood’s in the UK.

If they weren’t level I’d prime and screed it with uzin PE630 & NC196 fibre smoothing compound. Amazing gear.