Flush fit UPVC windows - 2nd opinion

[forestparkfats]

Hi DIYnot users,

Was looking for an independent opinion and thought you all might be able to oblige...

I had some flush fit rehau windows installed with a renolit foil (see middle example)

I told the installer these were junk but he insisted this was industry standard(?)

After much chiding he has come back with an example of his latest attempt(?) - see image on the left

Note: discolouration of foil, uneven line, raised rather than recessed join, lack of sharp angles...

I feel this is also not acceptable and that the welded joints on flush fit windows just don't sit well together and you really need mechanical joints to prevent burning and discolouring the foil (and getting a true line on the joint)

Also the image on the right is an example of a gap between window and render and is approx 32mm and this gap is consistent top and both sides so he is about 64mm out on width and 32mm out on height. What do you think is an acceptable gap for the window and frame to have? Most places I have seen say 1/4" or 3mm.. let me know your thoughts

Sorry for all the questions, opinions appreciated....

 

[ronniecabers]

Welded joints on flush sash are perfectly acceptable if done correctly
The original weld in this case was poor and never finished correctly and then the second weld is better but not sure why you have the 'burnt ' mark , they should be a nice clean weld without marks....unless that is just dirt and the fitter hasn't cleaned the window thoroughly.
As goes the 32mm either side, that is excessive. Sometimes you can get bigger gaps because the wall ' runs ' out but all the way round? Sorry it looks too small. The industry normally say take the measurement of the reveal and deduct 10mm , so 5mm each side from the narrowest point of the reveal. I'll be honest , personally I don't like that either and we try and return outer windows behind the external reveal where possible ( not always possible though )

 

[Mr Chibs]

You need to ask for graff welds, like these, these are foiled and the same as your profile.
Gap to render is too large, if needed there should be a 'knock on' on both sides, and shaped as needed.

 

[forestparkfats]

Welded joints on flush sash are perfectly acceptable if done correctly
The original weld in this case was poor and never finished correctly and then the second weld is better but not sure why you have the 'burnt ' mark , they should be a nice clean weld without marks....unless that is just dirt and the fitter hasn't cleaned the window thoroughly.
As goes the 32mm either side, that is excessive. Sometimes you can get bigger gaps because the wall ' runs ' out but all the way round? Sorry it looks too small. The industry normally say take the measurement of the reveal and deduct 10mm , so 5mm each side from the narrowest point of the reveal. I'll be honest , personally I don't like that either and we try and return outer windows behind the external reveal where possible ( not always possible though )

Hi Ronnie,
Just to clarify, your assessment is one on left poor and not finished correctly (this was their second attempt and the weld is raised not recessed), and one in the middle better but burnt looking? (This was the original attempt and the burn is melted foil and its the same on every single v-shaped join!)
Apparently, the tooling they used can't handle the joins so they were manually cutting the foil which is why the attempt on the left is all jagged and and rough.
Many thanks

 

[ronniecabers]

Yep , pretty much

 

[forestparkfats]

Yep , pretty much

Hi Ronnie thanks for confirming, so even their new attempt is substandard. Very useful to know!

 

[God]

Mechanical joints

 

[ronniecabers]

Mechanical joints

If you can stretch the budget, I agree , but most go for welded due to cost

 

[forestparkfats]

So the above is essentially what the fitter is suggesting, using hand finished V welds on new frames (which have been criticised already anyway) with the existing casements which have machined 45 degree welds. @ronniecabers @Mr Chibs any thoughts on whether this mix and match is acceptable?

 

[forestparkfats]

This is a comparison I found online, It is hand-finished welds on the frames and the casements, which for me is acceptable if lines are straight, angles are tight etc, no discolouration to foil etc. But that is not what has been proposed!

 

[ronniecabers]

These are flush sash frames I received from my supplier yesterday, little bit of tidying needed on pic 2 but nothing drastic. Pic 3, the black mark just wipes off with a cleaner. So this is what I would deem as acceptable

 

[forestparkfats]

Nice one thanks, very different to what has been proposed for mine and the main thing is the casement and frame have a consistent machined join.