For those on Octopus as energy supplier - free power

[Harry Bloomfield]

you make 30 times that amount by just posting it in a forum and adding your octopus referral code for it and hoping just one person will use it

Which doesn't generally work, because people maybe imagine there must be some catch. There is no catch, but despite posting the referral a few times, I have only ever had one referral credit. That, was from a local elderly friend of many years, who I do tend to advise of all the best deals I come across. His consumption is broadly similar to my own, I advised him he could save a considerable amount by simply moving from BG, to Octopus, then onto the Tracker tariff. He got his £50 off the bill, and like me has saved hundreds since then on the bill.

 

[JohnW2]

I think GaryDoesSolar has a good video explaining this. All about flattening the curve (peak at evening and low in early morning), but your assumptions are probably correct.

Yes, as I said, from the generators' point-of-view, it is clear that 'flattening the curve' is desirable - but, as I said, I don't really understand how that works in relation the the exchange of money between generator and supplier ....

well, not sure as long as you have critical mass. I know people on octopus, who do not have smart meters for some reason ...

As I wrote, the generator can only know how much of their electricity is being used by the customers of a particular supplier, other than from what the supplier tells them, and if some customers do not have 'smart' meters, the supplier will not know the total of what their customers are using in any particular hour (or minute, or whatever), so could not pass accurate information to the generators.

I suppose the generators may accept 'incomplete' hour-by-hour information on consumption attributable to customers of Octopus if a very high proportion of Octopus customers did have 'smart' meters? Otherwise, I can't see how it can 'work'.

 

[JohnW2]

What they say, is obviously you must have a SM. In that hour you would pay for whatever your normal consumption would be in that hour, but any excess beyond that basic consumption will be completely FOC. Without a SM, then they wouldn't have clue when you used what.

Yes, that much is obvious.

What energy companies are charged for their energy, varies minute by minute.

Sure - but, as I've said, the generators will not know, on a minute-by-minute basis, how much of their electricity is being used by the customers of a particular supplier, and so would have to be reliant (in retrospect) on what the supplier had told them - and the supplier will only have "minute-by-minute" (well, probably "30 minute-by-30 minute") data for customers who do have 'smart' meters.

.... People consuming more when there is surplus, also tends to reduce the demand away from the peak times. So they win both ways..

Indeed - but, as I wrote, that would result in a reduction in revenue for the supplier, so it would only make sense for them if there were a corresponding reduction in what they were paying generators for electricity.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Sure - but, as I've said, the generators will not know, on a minute-by-minute basis, how much of their electricity is being used by the customers of a particular supplier, and so would have to be reliant (in retrospect) on what the supplier had told them - and the supplier will only have "minute-by-minute" (well, probably "30 minute-by-30 minute") data for customers who do have 'smart' meters.

It doesn't really matter - Individual consumers, are not very predictable - but millions of consumers, form an average, whose actions and consumption can be quite accurately predicted.

Indeed - but, as I wrote, that would result in a reduction in revenue for the supplier, so it would only make sense for them if there were a corresponding reduction in what they were paying generators for electricity.

To stay in business, energy companies need to be competitive. Octopus is well known for being highly competitive, and of offering its customers lots of different tariffs, so they have a wide choice on how best to save money. They are constantly finding new ways to help both themselves and their customers, to save money. They already had a tariff, which varied by the hour, sometimes becoming even a negative charge - in other words they paid the customer to consume, so the generators logically must also be paying Octopus to consume at those times. A great tariff to be on, if you can make good use of it. This free one hour, must simply be an extension of that, for those like me, on a day to day variable tariff.

I simply try (not to hard), to keep a not too close eye, on the upcoming days Tracker tariff cost, and if I spot the cost dive to 50% of the CAP, suggest that day is a particularly good day to do the washing/drying/vaccing or whatever.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As it happens, I have just received an email to advise me of one of the free hours - 13:00 to 14:00 tomorrow.

 

[JohnW2]

It doesn't really matter - Individual consumers, are not very predictable - but millions of consumers, form an average, whose actions and consumption can be quite accurately predicted.

That's true 'in general', but I'm not at all sure how well one can "predict" how customers will respond to the offer of these 'free hours' (which is what matters to this discussion. For example, you have recently posted ...

As it happens, I have just received an email to advise me of one of the free hours - 13:00 to 14:00 tomorrow.

I would imagine that,even if they become aware of that offer 'in time', the households of a substantial proportion of Octopus customers will be unoccupied between 13:00 and 14:00 on a weekday (because all occupants are at work/school/wherever) and many of them might (with good reason) be nervous having 'large loads' being switched on (e.g. by time switches) when the house was unoccupied. Furthermore, even if they were going to be at home during the relevant hour (and were aware of the 'offer'), there is no telling what 'large loads' they would have that they could usefully switch on during that hour.

I would therefore suggest that Octopus's 'prediction' of how much electricity their customers will use between 13:00 and 14:00 tomorrow will probably be little more than a wild guess.

.... They already had a tariff, which varied by the hour, sometimes becoming even a negative charge - in other words they paid the customer to consume, so the generators logically must also be paying Octopus to consume at those times.

Sure. I said that (about the 'free hour') at the start, and it applies equally to low-cost or negative cost periods as well. However, as I said, the generator cannot know how much Octopus customers have used during such periods (hence how much to 'pay' Octopus) other than from what Octopus tell them - and that information, in turn, can only come from 'smart' meters.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I would therefore suggest that Octopus's 'prediction' of how much electricity their customers will use between 13:00 and 14:00 tomorrow will probably be little more than a wild guess.

They develop and advertise these things gradually - they told a few via email, checked the result from the few, increased the number, improved the predictability, then put it on their website, for everyone who looks, to see. They still have some control over it, because customers rely upon getting the email invite, during the days prior.

Unlike the system many suppliers use, that of having to wait until the next day for consumption data - Octopus developed the 'mini', which reads the meters every ten seconds, and transmits the data instantly to Octopus, via your Internet connection. I have access to the very same system, to check my consumption, anywhere, at any time.

 

[JohnW2]

They develop and advertise these things gradually - they told a few via email, checked the result from the few, increased the number, improved the predictability, then put it on their website, for everyone who looks, to see. They still have some control over it, because customers rely upon getting the email invite, during the days prior.

As I said, it's really down to the generators. If they regard the data that Octopus can provide as being accurate enough to be the basis for their 'billing' of Octopus, then fair enough.

For it to be financially beneficial for Octopus, the generator would presumably have to charge Octopus a 'negative' amount for electricity used during Octopus's 'free hour' (at least, for the 'excess' usage' during that hour as compared with what it would have been without the 'free' deal) ?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For it to be financially beneficial for Octopus, the generator would presumably have to charge Octopus a 'negative' amount for electricity used during Octopus's 'free hour' (at least, for the 'excess' usage' during that hour as compared with what it would have been without the 'free' deal) ?

There can be little doubt....

The generators obviously do charge a negative amount, when there is surplus, how else would Octopus be able to pay customers to actually use power?

Octopus, as a company, do not have any surplus.

 

[JohnW2]

The generators obviously do charge a negative amount, when there is surplus, how else would Octopus be able to pay customers to actually use power?

Quite. That's what I wrote.

 

[cdbe]

Sounds like a reason to consider buying a battery bank. How many KW could I dump into it FOC in an hour? But then it begs the question why aren't octopus storing all this free lecky themselves.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

why aren't octopus storing all this free lecky themselves.

Octopus are the "retail" arm of a larger group. Other bits of the group do seem to be dabbling in this stuff:

Octopus Energy Group and Gresham House sign biggest battery-leasing deal in the world

octopus.energy

 

[JohnD]

Sounds like a reason to consider buying a battery bank. How many KW could I dump into it FOC in an hour? But then it begs the question why aren't octopus storing all this free lecky themselves.

Interesting article here.

Last time I calculated, it was not a paying investment, but the situation might improve.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/is-solar-battery-storage-worth-it/

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Quite. That's what I wrote.

You wrote 'I presume', which sounded unconvinced.

 

[StephenStephen]

Sounds like a reason to consider buying a battery bank. How many KW could I dump into it FOC in an hour? But then it begs the question why aren't octopus storing all this free lecky themselves.

The number of kWh you can put into a battery in an hour depends on the inverter - a 6kW inverter will roughly store 6kWh in an hour, assuming that your battery has that spare capacity at the time.
Batteries are expensive, but can be worthwhile, especially as I believe they're now zero vat rated.
Increasingly people will have batteries parked by their homes with 50kWh and above capacity, so it's a shame that CCS V2G is taking so long to get sorted.