Forbidden Love - Castes issues in UK

[zanwan]

Oh, do come on On another thread you've just attempted to justify the application of the death penalty for religious purposes to protect a religious state.

erm no, this is not what i said. I said i support the death penalty as a suitable punishment for a particular crime i.e. murder.

You have also made it quite clear on here that "the family would not accept it" by which you presumably mean that the Muslim faith openly promotes castigation and discrimination against those who do not follow it's traditions and rules.

IF you go totally against the norms of your society, and in fact go openly against it, then you shouldnt be surprised if people take negatively to this. There are standards which i feel should be adhered to, and breaking from these leads to major issues for the society.

EG. Promisuity now here in the UK is seen as the norm. Having numerous sexual partners is the norm, this in turn leads to all sorts of issues from a rise in STD's, teen pregnancies, children growing up in single parent housholds etc and all the consequences of that. This is not how a thriving community with strong family values should be. I am all for the idea of a mum and dad, married, living together, raising a family. For me this is the ideal scenario. This is how most Muslim, or truly religious Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Sikh societies are. I wouldnt want Muslim communities to move away from this to a more morally questionable way of living. However to have this type of soceity means people need to follow certain norms. Breaking away from these shouldnt necessarily mean someone is castigated, but neither should it be encouraged.

Once upon a time teen pregnancy was frowned upon. Nowadays it seems the norm. Over time peoples attitudes have softened and its why now we have this situation. I wouldnt want this to happen in the Muslim community where the values we hold dear are slowly eroded for the sake of some liberalising of views.

With the recent riots, we have seen commentators, political leaders etc calling for a return to traditional values etc.





There is no difference between this situation, which you seem to applaud, and the caste situation in the op, which you abhore.[/quote]

 

[cantaloup63]

Oh, do come on On another thread you've just attempted to justify the application of the death penalty for religious purposes to protect a religious state.

erm no, this is not what i said. I said i support the death penalty as a suitable punishment for a particular crime i.e. murder.

In that discussion, you specifically referred to "In an Islamic" state/country, the virtues of which you were waxing lyrical about.

You have also made it quite clear on here that "the family would not accept it" by which you presumably mean that the Muslim faith openly promotes castigation and discrimination against those who do not follow it's traditions and rules.

IF you go totally against the norms of your society, and in fact go openly against it, then you shouldnt be surprised if people take negatively to this. There are standards which i feel should be adhered to, and breaking from these leads to major issues for the society.

But this is precisely the sort of situation regarding the opening post about the Castes. The couple in question flaunted their actions quite brazenly within the caste culture in which they belonged, and as such are in an identical position to the one you describe. They "shouldn't be surprised" by the actions and attitudes around them whose "standards" they decided not to adhere to, and indeed it has obviously led to major issues for them. You can't attack one situation whilst advocating another identical one.

With the recent riots, we have seen commentators, political leaders etc calling for a return to traditional values etc.

What are "traditional values" precisely? Would you care to put on these rose tinted spectacles and describe them for us, 'cos I'm pretty certain there are a load of not quite so quaint realities.

 

[Space cat]

With the recent riots, we have seen commentators, political leaders etc calling for a return to traditional values etc.

Political leaders will say anything if they think it'll get them a few extra votes. The last time I can remember a PM calling for a 'return to traditional values' it was John Major - who was bonking Edwina Currie at the time!

 

[holmslaw]

The caste system proves that asians etc are the biggest rascists in the world and are totally undeserving of any respect. Do a wiki search, it's unbeleivable, especially "modern palestine", an MSP's paradise.

How many millions do we give these savages per year, in order to maintain their medieval barbaric ignorant savagery.

 

[Mickymoody]

I believe that most posts generally are covered, by race creed, or religion, but to mention caste, brings a new angle to it? If the argument is that someone is darker than you, I'm Sorry but WTF?

 

[Alarm]

I suggest you read the thread and the Caste System.
Your a self proclaimed researcher, research...........

 

[Space cat]

-- but to mention caste, brings a new angle to it? If the argument is that someone is darker than you --

Sorry but I couldn't resist that.

I expect I'll get an ear bashing now.

 

[Space cat]

Hasn't this been raised before by you in the last day or so?

I can't find it. Has it been deleted?

 

[cantaloup63]

Hasn't this been raised before by you in the last day or so?

I can't find it. Has it been deleted?

It's on page 20 here

 

[Space cat]

It's on page 20 here

Thanks for that. I was looking in all the wrong places. It didn't help that a search for the phrase "forbidden love" produced only one result.

Promisuity now here in the UK is seen as the norm. Having numerous sexual partners is the norm

Really! That might be the perception but the reality is different. While there may be a small number, mostly male, hell bent on working their way through the other half of the population, we are essentially a pair forming species.

I belong to the generation that coined the phrase "free love" so I'd like to set the record straight. The operative word was "love". I'll admit that a few individuals set about collecting notches on their bedposts but most of us continued to do what humans have always done and formed pair bonds. It's the way our species works and we never needed permission from Church or State to do it.

It's no surprize that children do best when they have a mum and a dad who are lovers. As I said before, the 'family' predates religion by many thousands of years and it's worked well. It must have done or we would not still be here. It wasn't broken and it didn't need fixing! Rant over.

 

[joinerjohn]

There has been a lot in the press recently ( within the past few months about Muslims who have preyed on vulnerable young women. Would Ironaz care to comment on this?
When I say young women,,, I mean very young, vulnerable women of such an age that leads the Muslim men, open to prosecution.
What are your thoughts on this?????

 

[Mickymoody]

There has been a lot in the press recently ( within the past few months about Muslims who have preyed on vulnerable young women. Would Ironaz care to comment on this?
When I say young women,,, I mean very young, vulnerable women of such an age that leads the Muslim men, open to prosecution.
What are your thoughts on this?????

There is a genre, in certain populations, of Asian youths, having 'pimped up rides', and 14/15 yo, hanging about on the street impressed by this. So they go for a ride, but then it's gone too far.

 

[alumni]

There has been a lot in the press recently ( within the past few months about Muslims who have preyed on vulnerable young women. Would Ironaz care to comment on this?
When I say young women,,, I mean very young, vulnerable women of such an age that leads the Muslim men, open to prosecution.
What are your thoughts on this?????

And not forgetting the drink and drugs they use to assist them.

 

[cantaloup63]

To be honest I doubt that there has ever really been a significant increase in the amount of "bonking" that takes place over the ages.

What has changed is the ability to prevent conception, safely terminate pregnancies and treat STD's on the one hand (there is a potential pun there, but I think I'll leave it to others ), whilst ensuring safe births and child-care arrangements on the other. This has caused the huge increase in global population (coupled of course with life-expectencies increasing and mortality rates decreasing), and this is IMO the singular most important issue that needs tackling.

Most of the world's woes would be nearly instantly soluble if we could get population figures down to a sustainable level. If our inglorious religions and their morally fetid and self-seeking corrupt leaders could start interpreting or re-writing their religious manuals to incoporate guidance such as "there is only one god, and as such there should only be a maximum of one replacement for you", then I'd be more inclined to believe that religion really is there for the good of the planet and human species.