French electrician

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hello
I own a small house in france and have had it rewired by an English electrician (ex boyfriend!!!!!) i have been told i now need to get his work checked by a qualified french electrician for insurance reasons
thankyou in advance
Cynthia
 
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Yes you do.

And if the local council are very fussy they may not accept any work carried out by an electrician who is not "registered" under the French system.

Wiring regulations in France are very different to the UK and if it is wired to UK guidelines it may fail the inspection.
 
Wiring regulations in France are definitely quite strict and also very different to the UK as the above poster said.

There are major differences like a requirement to have double-pole (switching live and neutral) circuit breakers etc.

Do you know if the person who installed the wiring in your house used French or British fittings and wiring ?

If you've used UK materials, particularly cables it's possible that you might need to prepare yourself for quite a substantial financial shock too. For example, UK style 'twin and earth' where the earth wire is uninsulated and smaller than the live and neutral conductors, wouldn't even remotely comply with French requirements.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!

Post back and let us know how you got on though. It would be interesting to find out more about how the French inspectors react and deal with it.
 
there is a link on here for the french electrical book translated into almost english. have a look at it, its really informative.
 
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thankyou all very much..i am going out to the house this weekend..i'll take some photos and post them not really understanding anything you said!
 
put in simple terms cynthia, french wiring is very different

wires are seperate - no 3 core cables (twin & earth)
MCBs isolate both neg and live - we only isolate live
each circuit is radial - there are no ring circuits in france
the consumer unit is huge - not like our 8"x14" compact little boxes

these are the basic differences

as far as i understand the french also use orange cables for switch lives.
 
For Cynthia43

Beware!

All new houses and any rewired old ones will be wired with the new French wiring system using 3 core (wire) cable like (but not exactly the same) as the UK type.
The old french system had an earth that led to a copper/bronze spike buried in the ground (so I understand)

I am about to get quotes (devis) for a rewire which I suspect will not be cheap, but at least there is legislation that insists a minimum of 4 (I think) sockets per room -additions are extra.

Normally one can tell if you have the old system by the light switches having little round buttons next to them - this is where the fuse to that switch is) Some unscrupulous types in selling their properties have replaced the old switches with modern ones that do not have the individual fuses. What this means is if the switch fuses then the main fuse will pop the button on your main fuse board.

A Brit close by, wired his French house with British system ring mains (Don't ask me how) but he had a fire, which was unrelated and the insurance comapny refursed to pay out!)

Hope some of this helped

Courage mon brave

Jim
 
For Cynthia43

Beware!

All new houses and any rewired old ones will be wired with the new French wiring system using 3 core (wire) cable like (but not exactly the same) as the UK type.
The old french system had an earth that led to a copper/bronze spike buried in the ground (so I understand)

I am about to get quotes (devis) for a rewire which I suspect will not be cheap, but at least there is legislation that insists a minimum of 4 (I think) sockets per room -additions are extra.

Normally one can tell if you have the old system by the light switches having little round buttons next to them - this is where the fuse to that switch is) Some unscrupulous types in selling their properties have replaced the old switches with modern ones that do not have the individual fuses. What this means is if the switch fuses then the main fuse will pop the button on your main fuse board.

A Brit close by, wired his French house with British system ring mains (Don't ask me how) but he had a fire, which was unrelated and the insurance comapny refursed to pay out!)

Hope some of this helped

Courage mon brave

Jim
 
hello britinfrance
thankyou for all the information..i have just got back and will upload some photos of my electrics when I can sort out my camera
thanks Cynthia
 
Hi Cynthia,

You can get away with not having the rewire checked. But it's not a good idea.

Presumably the person who did the work merely tripped the disjoncteur at the meter and did the work, then reconnected. EDF are none the wiser, and nobody is going to come around and check your wiring. According to the French regulatory authorities, out of 28 million households, 7 million can be classed as being an electrical hazard, while 2.3 million are downright dangerous. There are 400 deaths by electrocution every year and of the 250,000 annual house fires, 80,000 are caused by electrics.

See here: http://www.consuel.com/securite.htm

This is why, even if you are connected and everything works, it is better to get what's called an "Attestation de Conformité" (a certificate) for your installation.

For several reasons:

- It assures YOU that your installation is safe;
- If you decide to sell the property, it is an added value. I'm sure you are well aware that labour is expensive in France, what with the 35-hour week and all that, so if the average buyer sees they need to redo the electrics in even a small property, they'll be justified in trying to knock 7-15,000 euros off the purchase price;
- If, heaven forbid, you have a fire or accident, you can show the certificate to the insurance company and tell them to stop acting like insurance companies do and pay up. If you don't have the certificate, they can do what they love doing and not pay.

Now, the Attestation de Conformité is handled by an organisation called the Consuel (http://www.consuel.com). First you will get a form to fill out, detailing the installation.

The problem is that your declaration has to be comprehensive. For example, you need a special tool to measure the resistance to earth -- which only electricians tend to have. So even a well-equipped DIYer will need help for that bit. The resistance needs to measure between 10 and 100 ohms (off the top of my head, could be wrong), and you cant just pick a random number.

Then the Consuel will send an inspector around -- and here's the key -- to see if the partial or total electrical renovation is in compliance with the latest norms, which are detailed by a code called "NFC 15-100". This process costs around 100 euros, whether you pass or not.

A UK-style installation with rings will NOT pass, unless you live in a little village somewhere, know everyone personally and the inspector is the local bon vivant who takes a fancy to you and shares some wine, good conversation and a laugh -- and will then sign off on anything. I've seen that happen.

On the other hand, the inspector may be an anally retentive, humourless anglophobe fonctionnaire who will look in every nook and cranny to find a fault in even the most perfect, compliant installations, determined to fail you and send you back across the channel.

Still, if you fail, they're not going to go to EDF and have you cut off. It just means you don;t get the certificate.

The NFC 15-100 code is very detailed and contains specific guidelines on everything -- like someone pointed out above, how many plugs per m2. But it ain;t that simple. Double or triple plugs only count as one or two, for example. There are rules for what wire gauges to be used, maximum number of cables per conduit, which value disjoncteur to use for which appliance, maximum number of plugs and light bulbs per disjoncteur, the height off the floor for plugs and the tableau electrique..... and so on and on and on.

For any DIYer thinking of attacking a reinstallation in France, the following publications by Theirry Gallauziaux & David Fedullo are essential to making sense of these norms:

"L'installation electrique" (someone on this forum has posted a pdf file of a rough english translation of an earlier edition, which is good to give a general idea, but the edition is now out of date on several codes).

"Le grand livre d'electricite" -- like the above but thicker, with some useful schematics and other bonus bits.

and most importantly: "Les evolutions de la norme electrique" which gives a good rundown of the essential aspects of NFC 15-100.

Another useful read is "Installer un tableau electrique", and "Memento de schemas electriques (vols 1 +2)", by the same authors.

The above books are sold on paper and PDF here: www.commeunpro.com ; or check amazon.fr or your local french bookstore. You will need to be fluent in French to have any chances of digesting all of the above and tackling the job yourself.

The french electrical firm Legrand also has some useful pdf downloads on the latest norms.

Anyway, back to the inspection. The work does NOT have to have been carried out by a qualified electrician. It just needs to be compliant. But generally if a qualified French electrician does the installation, part of the price for the work generally includes him/her having to handle the certificate from the Consuel. For a qualified electrician, this process should be a breeze. For a DIYer, it can be stressful.

Unless your ex-boyfriend is 100% familiar with NFC 15-100, my bet is that you won;t get the certificate, and you'll be classed alongside the many millions of other households that do not meet electrical standards.

You still have electricity though. But nagging in the back of your head will be the thought that if your property burns down, you'll be badly out of pocket.

Hope all that was fairly clear and of some help.

regards, Stefan
 
Sorry to butt in on your chats, but trying to determine the full names for the French short forms RC and PC in relation to French electrics. Any guidance?
 
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