Frozen Toilet!

[wlmartin]

The Collar is just a bit of rubber. When you plunged it all you did was find the weakest joint and pushed the water out.

Without the pressure from plunging it shouldnt be leaking.

try toolstation.com for lists of parts.

I was thinking about getting something like
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Flexible-Pan-Connector/invt/431577?source=123_4
To connect between the cuff and the outside pipe

This should work right?
(thanks for all the advice you all, this has gone from being a disaster to something that we may be able to fix!!)

 

[Adrian80]

No probably not they are quite big and not that flexible..

it looks like the soil pipe is coming in at an angle to the pan.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...WC+Connector+14+Angle+110mm/d20/sd2887/p91848

So something like this should help it line up better.

The connectors can tolerate mis alignment- but if you get everything lined up all the better.

A

 

[Frankie69]

I too have exactly the same problem.
Toilet pan won't flush away and I'm guessing its because the soil stack is frozen somewhere. Never had any problems before and pretty certain its not blocked as it flushed on the morning and was blocked after coming in from work on Monday. So like your good self my wife and I are using toilets at work for our daily abolutions and a bucket at home for liquids
I've tried unblocking it in the usual way, pouring hot water over the pipe (at the point where I think it maybe frozen) and even a hairdryer on the inside wall where the pipe exits to outside. All to no avail...
Don't want to call a plumber (yet) as I'm hoping it will cure itself when the temp rises just a couple of degrees (please?)
Might try the hot water down the pan idea. Can't hurt I guess..(Toilet pan has been re-filling itself as well for some reason almost to the top) and its now a daily job to empty it out!
Sorry I can't come up with a solution as yet but at least it helps to know you're not the only one!

 

[Adrian80]

Perhaps might try one of these

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...WC+Connector+Straight+160mm/d20/sd2887/p52263

its a fair bit more expensive though..

A

 

[wlmartin]

No probably not they are quite big and not that flexible..

it looks like the soil pipe is coming in at an angle to the pan.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...WC+Connector+14+Angle+110mm/d20/sd2887/p91848

So something like this should help it line up better.

The connectors can tolerate mis alignment- but if you get everything lined up all the better.

A

Adrian, thanks for the help so far

Toolstation is a bit far from us, so i was thinking a bit closer say a wickes or screwfix

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Soil-Pan-Connector/invt/431972

This seems to be similar to what you suggested.

It is my hope that all we need to do is
a) Connect the outside pipe that comes in, to the Soil Pan Connector
b) Connect the Soil Pan Connector to the Collar
c) Connect the Collar to the toilet pan

Does that sound right?

 

[Adrian80]

I would try screwfix,

yes looks right.

I am not sure about all your stages, all you do is push it all together, a bit washing up liquid to help it slip together is handy..

 

[wlmartin]

I would try screwfix,

yes looks right.

I am not sure about all your stages, all you do is push it all together, a bit washing up liquid to help it slip together is handy..

Something that I have thought of that again seems silly question

Untitled

• wlmartin
• 22 Dec 2010
• 1

Is a toilet supposed to be connected in this fashion?
It has a pipe from outside, some kind of connector and then another connector (which I have been calling the collar or the cuff) connecting to the toilet.

What I am wondering is, Am i going to connect something like this http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plu...WC+Connector+14+Angle+110mm/d20/sd2887/p91848 directly from the pan to the pipe (ignoring the cuff) or am I connecting it directly from the pipe to the cuff?

Sounds silly I know but from what you and others have explained and how my toilet is setup, I am thinking that I need 4 things, the pan, the collar, the pan connector and the pipe - slot them all together and I am done.... I am just checking that the pan connector and the collar are not the same thing perhaps

Thanks

 

[Adrian80]

The slightly extendable pan connector should be able to make it from the pan to the external soil pipe without the need of an extension pipe.
A

 

[wlmartin]

The slightly extendable pan connector should be able to make it from the pan to the external soil pipe without the need of an extension pipe.
A

So in my picture where there is something connected to the toilet and something connected to the external soil pipe, are both of these called "Pan Connectors?" (and for some reason the people who installed this toilet before us have decided to join 2 of them together very poorely?)

If that is the case then we can explore getting a connector that goes from the pan itself to the soil pipe and throw away the rubber collar then?

I just need to clarify if the rubber collar that sits on the toilet pans outlet pipe is needed or not?

 

[xr4x4]

(Toilet pan has been re-filling itself as well for some reason almost to the top) and its now a daily job to empty it out!

it shouldnt be constantly filling/overflowing.

isolate the water to the toilet untill the problem is sorted.

 

[wlmartin]

(Toilet pan has been re-filling itself as well for some reason almost to the top) and its now a daily job to empty it out!

it shouldnt be constantly filling/overflowing.

isolate the water to the toilet untill the problem is sorted.

I know it shouldnt, we are going to replace the ballcock/cistern flush thing whilst we fix this, as for some reason it was filling up for no reason constantly unless we weighted a specific amount of coins on the float.

 

[Adrian80]

If you look at the connectors the rubber colar is part of the pan connector.

it sounds like your not overly confident, perhaps it might be better to get someone in?


Also might not be the best thing to start before everything closes for christmas.

A

 

[Frankie69]

(Toilet pan has been re-filling itself as well for some reason almost to the top) and its now a daily job to empty it out!

it shouldnt be constantly filling/overflowing.

isolate the water to the toilet untill the problem is sorted.

I know it shouldnt, we are going to replace the ballcock/cistern flush thing whilst we fix this, as for some reason it was filling up for no reason constantly unless we weighted a specific amount of coins on the float.

Yep, It shouldn't but it was (due to the cistern arm getting caught on part of the middle assembly bit and not returning to the 'off' position.) This meant that the water was always running slightly I think, hence the full bowl every day and probably the frozen pipe too. I've moved it slightly and it seems ok now. Not filling right up any more (but still not flushing away...still hoping for a slight thaw)

 

[wlmartin]

A big thanks to all who assisted me.

This afternoon I (feeling quite frustrated and a little deflated by the situation) visited homebase and bought

1 x All Purpose Hosepipe Connector
(Warning, these are a pain to deal with, because the tap isnt a standard type you have to have the right washer and the right degree of tightness - oh and it helps to open up the hosepipe to prevent a build up of pressure)
1 x Short Pan Connector
1 x Long Pan Connector
(whichever of these 2 isnt going to fit goes back to homebase)
1 x Replacement Valve Unit

Got home, first task was to get the Toilet (which decides to run without warning, and with a blocked pipe this could be disastrous) sorted with a new Valve Unit.

Turned the water off
Took the old one Valve Unit off, replaced it with this new one and secured it in place
Turned the water on
!!! NIGHTMARE !! the pan was filling up, the cistern wasnt filling up

Turned the water off!
After much fiddling and scooping of water from the Pan I thought it is probably that the flush is part way through a cycle and may need some patience.
Turned the water on
Just like I thought it started working after a little patience (and frantic scooping) it stopped filling the cistern.

Phew!

Next task - Thawing the soil pipe.
I took the advise of what others were saying and started at the bottom.

(For those who have this problem, it is hard to figure out what a cast iron pipe with water/ice or empty sounds like - FYI: An empty/hollow pipe sounds plinky or tinny, whereas a full pipe (with ice) just sounds thuddy)

It took a while of hot water spraying for the bottom part of the soil pipe to start sounding hollow, so I went to the next section, and after a bit more time that was sounding hollow
(this takes about 5-10 minutes)

I then started focusing on the junction point and the soil pipe exit from the toilet, this seemed to stay FULL (a quick tap with a broom showed me it was NOT hollow)

I kept at this for 10-15 minutes before thinking it might be worth a plunge!

I went inside, got my mop+carrier bag plunger and did a couple of plunges, a donk sound came from outside and I was hopeful that the blockage had passed... I poured a little water down the pan and it disappeared (such a wonderful sight!) I followed this up with some hot water (even hot water with salt mixed in towards the end) and it was going down... JOY!!!

I am unsure if my plunge dislodged some already part melted ice (from my outside hosing) or if there was a thick blockage of ice in there and since there was emptiness on the other side of the blockage, newton kicks in and the pressure from the plunging kicked it into touch.


I of course need to replace the cuff so that we avoid any leaking from it in the near future, however I am now the proud owner of a working toilet.


It is only when you lose something so vital that you realize Humans and Animals are just a few technical advances apart!




Thank you
Thank you to all who offered their advise. I hope my trials and tribulations have amused or enlightened any others with the same problem and all I can say is as follows

1 : In such cold weather put a hot salty bucket of water down every sink hole you can in the morning and evening
2 : If you have a blockage in your toilet and a quick 1 or 2 plunge doesnt fix it and the weather is very cold, you could have a frozen soil pipe, whack it a little with a stick and see if it makes a hollow or thudding sound... if its a thud you may have ice, stop plunging and get thawing
3 : If you have a broken toilet part that is working but not working well, fix it or replace it. I thought a simple overflowing toilet cistern was nothing to worry about until I now think that the constant draining may have caused ice to build up in my soilpipe and has cost me more in stress and time that just replacing the part! it isnt worth being tight when it comes to your plumbing!
4 : My external soil pipe can be thawed with a hosepipe and hot water and should this occur again I know that this simple step is all it takes
5 : If you are plunging or dealing with any type of toilet blockage, cover your floor with towels. No matter how it happens, your toilet will overflow or spit dirty toilet water at you and it will get into your carpet / floor and stink
6 : Ask for help in this forum, there are some friendly and knowledgeable people here, if i ever get stuck again I know where I will come to!

Good luck to anyone with a similar problem