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Full Wiring Diagram with a House Re-Wire?

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by EzioSuffolk, 13 Jan 2020.

  1. EzioSuffolk

    EzioSuffolk

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    I'm intending to have my old 3-bed house almost fully re-wired (together with some media cabling) by a professional.

    Is it normal to have detailed wiring diagrams (showing the routings of the cables etc.) drawn up as part of the job? Would they be done before the job starts (and modified if it's found changes are necessary), or drawn up later?
    Or are such routing/wiring diagrams completely pointless and unnecessary?
    If drawn, would they just be hand-drawn sketches, or more professional?
    I'm partly asking whether Electricians just 'make up the routing' as they go along, or do they do some pre-planning and have it all mapped out beforehand?

    I just want to know what to expect/require.

    Thanks,

    Ezio
     
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  3. terryplumb

    terryplumb

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    I have never met an electrician who draws up plans for the cable routes in a domestic property ,if that's what you are expecting. The positions of fittings ,sockets ,isolators etc would have to be discussed / agreed. Kitchen planners often include electric points in their plans.
     
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  4. EzioSuffolk

    EzioSuffolk

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    Thanks, I was asking if that's a common/good thing to do.
    Apparently not. Thanks.
     
  5. seasickstevie

    seasickstevie

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    Would be good to make a drawing - nothing too technical - as and when the cabling is in place. Just to have so that if alterations - electrical or otherwise - are made in the future, you or a subsequent occupier would know where to expect to find cables. Wouldn't think it's done by many people, but in an ideal world, it could well be useful.
     
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  6. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Take photos during installation.
     
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  7. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    Easiest way is Postit notes (if the place is nicely decorated) or sharpie marks on white gaffa tape if you're back to brick.
    For costing purposes its worth you doing sketch plans of each room & mark where you want what (with av you need to get specific about what cables you want and where the other ends will be).
    Think about where you want patchbays, distribution amps, satellite splitter things, that sort of stuff. @Lucid is a mine of info on this stuff.
    With things like HDMI links there's a ducting discussion to be had (is it worth being able to pull the next generation cable through?)
     
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  9. JohnD

    JohnD

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    An "as drawn" plan will not be the same as an "as built" one.

    You can mark up the walls with a felt pen if you like.

    It's handy to photograph the cable runs and chases before they get plastered over, especially in a kitchen. You can make a plan for your house file if you want, afterwards.
     
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  10. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Thanks @oldbutnotdead :)

    With the greatest respect to electricians, wiring for AV and wiring for controlled lighting are very different disciplines to wiring for standard electrical- and lighting- ring mains. In all the new builds and refurbs or extensions where I have been involved with doing either AV or lighting or both, I have never yet had a spark volunteer to provide a wiring plan for mains sockets and lighting positions. They normally work off the building plan provided by the architect or lead trade. Any competent spark should be working to the latest edition electrical regs and following standard practice, so its a fairly redundant exercise to draw up additional plans for wiring for say the mains sockets that should be self-evident when walking in to a room.

    Where a project requires more elaborate wiring, say with several circuits of controlled lighting, and involving a specialist 3rd party contractor who is handing off the task of pulling cables to the on-site spark, then that's the break point where I'd expect to either see or supply a detailed wiring diagram. Normally, you'll have had a conversation with the contractor about what you want and where, and so the wiring diagram will be a costed element as part of the job.

    For AV and data wiring, it depends on the complexity of the job and who is pulling cables. One thing is for sure, I would never trust a general spark to wire up for TV/satellite or any kind of AV or data networking off their own bat. In my experience it'll go wrong. They'll daisy chain for aerial and data points; use low grade cable; or forget to wire up for something. Don't take the risk.

    In my quotes I specify costs for providing wiring plans and include contingency planning for dealing with the consequences of delays and cost overruns if those plans are not followed. I'm typically dealing with bundles of cables as thick as my wrist or forearm. My wiring plan will include instructions to the on-site spark to label as they go. If that's not done at first fix, and I have to spend anything up to a day buzzing out wires because the spark and his apprentice couldn't be bothered to follow instructions, then the cost for that extra time is coming out of someone else's budget and not mine.

    What are you thinking of having done?

    If this or any other reply was helpful to you, then please do the decent thing and click the T-H-A-N-K-S button. It appears when you hover the mouse pointer near the Quote Multi-quote buttons. This is the proper way to show your thanks for the time and help someone gave you.
     
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  11. Taylortwocities

    Taylortwocities

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    All that an electrician is REQUIRED to do on completion of a job (rewire, in your case) is to:
    1. Provide an Installation Certificate. This confirms that the installation conforms to B7671 and details the characteristics of each circuit and what bthey do for a living (upstairs lights, sockets, garage power, etc)
    2. In England & Wales: notify his/her competent person scheme that the work has been completed. The CPS will confirm this to you and also notify your local LABC.

    I've never provided detailed drawings of an installation. Impossible to do beforehand as the house construction will decide a lot of cable routes - its best to use the existing holes/chases -
    As others have said, your job is to provide detailed drawings to your electrician detailing exactly what you want and where. Have him give you a quote for this work, detail any changes and be prepared to pay extra for any alterations!
     
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  12. charliegolf

    charliegolf

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    When I project managed my self-build, I made loadsa copies of the floor plans, up and down. When asking for quotes I used the to sketch on where any (plumbing/electrical/heating) service or outlet was to go. These would change if the pro would say, "That would be better/cheaper/look better if you put it there", but it worked. Routings were his superpower!
     
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  13. ericmark

    ericmark

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    On large jobs we have been given detailed plans, showing where each cable runs and where every box is placed, these are often altered and after you get an asbuilt showing how it was finally wired. This is because many firms and many trades working together, so you don't want wiring to get in the way of steam pipes which are going in latter, and often tray work is laid by completely different firm to one laying cables, and they are connected by again another firm, so they have no real option but to make detailed plans.

    In the main a home is much simpler, yes needs some design, will sockets be split up/down, side/side, front/back same with lights, and there will be some separation between low and extra low voltage and the plumbing. With a new build as with larger commercial premises there will be designated routes, so wires not in the way of pipes etc. But on a re-wire it is more down to where one can get assess to, and what re-decoration will be required, so one wall papered and three walls painted, putting sockets on painted walls makes filling and re-decoration cheaper and easier. If wires don't need to cross beams then again cheaper, and in the main it is a compromise.

    So my instructions to firm rewiring mothers house, location of TV etc and sockets required, all sockets to be flush and all sockets on the ring so more can be added latter, trunking allowed in the corners of a room where already installed, but no trunking away from corners, still found one cable in horizontal trunking across wall. But instructions were vague as wanted cheap job, so if sockets could be back to back clearly a saving both materials and making good latter.

    All redundant sockets to be removed, again they did not do that, found some dead sockets, due to panelling on stairs agreed hall and landing light positioned so they would light stairs and second light to spread the light along them, they did it on landing, not on hall. My main problem was speed, it was costing £500 a week to have mother in a home while it was being done, so I agreed to some changes to speed it all up.

    It is all well and good saying I want a socket on that wall there, but it should also conform with the Parts of the building regulations, it was pointed out with my mother she was in a wheel chair so the distances given in Part M as to locations for wheel chair uses needed following, how far from corner, and how far up the wall, with some specials like two way switch for bedroom lights and thermostat low enough so she could see it.

    And clearly not being occupied while being rewired does reduce price and make it safer, but once the electrician has started it is likely some changes will be required, be it pipes in the way, or plaster blown so want to avoid that wall. In the main there needs to be trust and give and take.

    I remember working for one guy, and we had given a quote for the work, while doing the work the lady of the house would ask can you do this, or can you do that, and answer was invariable yes, at end of the job the bill was sent to the guy, £x for agreed work on quote plus £x for the extras requested by Mrs xyz. I felt it was sneaky, but was not my call, but learnt from it, so have been careful to ask will I be charged for this. So trust is important, not just cheapest quote.
     
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  14. oldbutnotdead

    oldbutnotdead

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    Quick note to OP- since you're not in a new build you don't have to comply with the socket and switch locations laid out in that bit of the Approved Documents.
    Socket and switch positions- decide where you want them to suit your purposes and make sure they're in that location on your sketch plan (rather than drawing elevations of every wall, which is very tedious, a note along the lines of 'all sockets in this room to be bottom of backbox height x mm above FFL. Light switches bottom of backbox xmm above FFL, minimum y mm from architrave, maximum z mm from architrave (or door lining or some other fixed reference point).
    Your sketch plan (which you can copy and give to quoting firms) will come in very handy for overall count of sockets, switches, boxes etc. and for settling any discussions about something being an extra or not.
     
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  15. DIYnot Local

    DIYnot Local

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