Fuse for oven wall socket

[SUNRAY]

However, irrespective of the actual voltage within the tolerance range, for the purpose of calculation, don't we all have to use Uo as 230v? (Even though we all know its still 240ish)

The facts are the fuse is running above its rated current and I believe thats down to circuit design. I'm sure an insurance claim or court of law would find that so.

Experience tells me the fuse in question will be a problem again, maybe in 10 days, maybe in 10 years...

 

[ColJack]

as pointed out by many people.. heating appliances are usually described as their maximum rating to look more impressive..
so the 2.9KW is usually based on 240V...

given that the resistance is fixed then a reduction in voltage would in fact cause a corresponding reduction in current.. and power..
the power is not fixed.. it's a given power for a given voltage..

so contrary to what the calculations show, running at 230V rather than 240V actually ends up with a lower current..

 

[SUNRAY]

as pointed out by many people.. heating appliances are usually described as their maximum rating to look more impressive..
so the 2.9KW is usually based on 240V...

given that the resistance is fixed then a reduction in voltage would in fact cause a corresponding reduction in current.. and power..
the power is not fixed.. it's a given power for a given voltage..

so contrary to what the calculations show, running at 230V rather than 240V actually ends up with a lower current..

Correct except that I'm finding that equipment intended for the eu market tends to show the voltage and (current) of 220 - 240 but the power at 230V, at least in the industrial sphere.
If there is disagreement with the calculations I show, it's most likely I have not adequately described what the calculations are, rather than them being wrong.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BS1363 etc was introduced for 3KW kit when the standard was 240V, is it only me that has noticed this error since the standard was changed to 230V

It might be only you who thinks that 2900/230 does not produce a number which is < 13.

When the standard was 240V, a 3kW resistive load would draw 13.2A at 254V, so are we to take it that you have never been happy with 3kW loads on a 13A fuse, and that if someone had posted a problem involving a 3kW oven before 01/01/1995 you would have told him to put it on a 16A circuit?

 

[SUNRAY]

BS1363 etc was introduced for 3KW kit when the standard was 240V, is it only me that has noticed this error since the standard was changed to 230V

It might be only you who thinks that 2900/230 does not produce a number which is < 13.

When the standard was 240V, a 3kW resistive load would draw 13.2A at 254V, so are we to take it that you have never been happy with 3kW loads on a 13A fuse, and that if someone had posted a problem involving a 3kW oven before 01/01/1995 you would have told him to put it on a 16A circuit?

No I am not happy wich BS1363 etc running at 13A, even the good ones like MK.
How many 13A plugs, sockets, FCU's etc have you changed which have overheated, burnt out, welded together etc
View media item 14453 View media item 14452This pair was installed at easter in a schools new tuck shop to run a 3KW Burco urn. It originally had a moulded plug which was replaced with MK as that is the spec. When they did the PAT in summer hols it failed because the 2 are welded together.?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Was the plug properly attached?

BS 1363 is absolutely clear - plugs and sockets should be perfectly capable of carrying 13A for very long periods. If something there failed then either:

1) Something was faulty

2) MK are lying when they say that their products comply with BS 1363

3) Installer error

 

[SUNRAY]

Was the plug properly attached?

BS 1363 is absolutely clear - plugs and sockets should be perfectly capable of carrying 13A for very long periods. If something there failed then either:

1) Something was faulty

2) MK are lying when they say that their products comply with BS 1363

3) Installer error

So how many have you had to replace?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

None.

But what has that to do with the fact that BS 1363 is absolutely clear about the requirement for plugs and sockets to be able to carry 13A safely?

 

[SUNRAY]

None.

But what has that to do with the fact that BS 1363 is absolutely clear about the requirement for plugs and sockets to be able to carry 13A safely?

I have so far this year replaced that pair in pic around 3 months old, a pair on immersion heater in 10 year old house(never unplugged) with a 20DP switch (its already on its own MCB radial), 2 plugs, 1 socket & FCU on kitchen white appliances all under 5 years old (probably never unplugged) and plug and socket on a 2KW domestic hair dryer (plugged in and out daily). These fittings blatantly have not been fit for purpose and is fairly typical of my experience, averaging out over the course of lots of years I make that over 200, in fact its likely to be a lot higher as when you visit for a 3rd or 4th time to replace another faulty socket they start asking to replace the whole lot.

I find it very hard to believe that a person offering advice on an electrical 'help' forum has never had to replace a single ( and before the sarky comments -double) 13A socket, plug, FCU etc due to failure.
In fact if you have replaced' none' I kinda start wondering if your a FIIFOO sort of person.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

However, irrespective of the actual voltage within the tolerance range, for the purpose of calculation, don't we all have to use Uo as 230v? (Even though we all know its still 240ish)

The facts are the fuse is running above its rated current and I believe thats down to circuit design. I'm sure an insurance claim or court of law would find that so.

Experience tells me the fuse in question will be a problem again, maybe in 10 days, maybe in 10 years...

hmm, id like to discuss this further, but the troll is hungry, so i'll leave it.




SUNRAY, you got me with that one, what is FIIFOO ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have so far this year replaced that pair in pic around 3 months old, a pair on immersion heater in 10 year old house(never unplugged) with a 20DP switch (its already on its own MCB radial), 2 plugs, 1 socket & FCU on kitchen white appliances all under 5 years old (probably never unplugged) and plug and socket on a 2KW domestic hair dryer (plugged in and out daily). These fittings blatantly have not been fit for purpose and is fairly typical of my experience, averaging out over the course of lots of years I make that over 200, in fact its likely to be a lot higher as when you visit for a 3rd or 4th time to replace another faulty socket they start asking to replace the whole lot.

I hope that you reported each instance to Trading Standards, as something should be done about manufacturers selling products which don't conform to the standards they should.

I find it very hard to believe that a person offering advice on an electrical 'help' forum has never had to replace a single ( and before the sarky comments -double) 13A socket, plug, FCU etc due to failure.
In fact if you have replaced' none' I kinda start wondering if your a FIIFOO sort of person.

Believe what you like, but I've never had to replace any where the failure was not due to incorrect installation or lack of maintenance or physical damage.

 

[SUNRAY]

I hope that you reported each instance to Trading Standards, as something should be done about manufacturers selling products which don't conform to the standards they should.

Along with all the other thousands?

Believe what you like, but I've never had to replace any where the failure was not due to incorrect installation or lack of maintenance or physical damage.

I'm amazed to say the least, I wonder why I see them and you don't.
I'll try to take pics of all in the future and post them for you.
BTW how long have you been in the industry?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Along with all the other thousands?

Yup.

I'm amazed to say the least, I wonder why I see them and you don't.

Maybe because you go fiddling with installations you didn't do, and I don't?

I'll try to take pics of all in the future and post them for you.

No need.

BTW how long have you been in the industry?

The one I work in? About 30 years.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've deleted my reply as it started looking like a witch hunt or something. Which is NOT my intent.

SORRY, SORRY, I MISSED OUT THE WORD IN RED AND YES I AM SHOUTING THAT I MADE A BIG BLUNDER.