Gap houses

[fillyboy]

Young people in Devon and Cornwall are just royally buggered by the wealthy, (I believe there should be huge tax burdens for those that own 2nd homes, to avoid what has happened their). Those that rent properties should have to be setup as a business and pay corporation tax each year on the earnings from the house and the yearly value increase of the property.

You do hear locals complaining about the price of property because 'outsiders' are buying the properties that 'they' sold to them but the reality is, last time I checked, the average salary is about 17% lower than the national average and properties are probably 50% lower than Greater london so I still believe they've got a good deal.
Prices are soaring here at the moment as people in the home counties are adapting to working 'remotely'.

 

[Ihavenojob]

You do hear locals complaining about the price of property because 'outsiders' are buying the properties that 'they' sold to them but the reality is, last time I checked, the average salary is about 17% lower than the national average and properties are probably 50% lower than Greater london so I still believe they've got a good deal.
Prices are soaring here at the moment as people in the home counties are adapting to working 'remotely'.

Spoke to someone the other day who sold their house. Had an open day, plenty of offers at the asking price, and some above. Selling is easy now, buying isn't.

 

[Brigade77]

In a totally unscientific survey I carried out while walking the dog nowhere near t'village pub . . . The 3x early 20somethings capable of more than a grunt that I engaged with, not one expects to be able to afford to buy a house "where they'd want to live" in the future !

1 young lad (good job in CNC engineering) & 2 young ladies. 1 with a degree & good job & 1 pharmacy assistant who hopes to marry well.

Cheapest house for sale in t'village is a terraced 2up 2down with flat roofed kitchen & bathroom extension @£88 000. All said it's off the cards 'cos they wouldn't be able to keep running their cars (public transport here is a joke) & you'd need to move if/when you wanted kids . . . . As well as having a dad who's a builder with deep pockets.

What astonished me is they have looked into it & they have done the figures. t'Young lad reckons he'll eventually pair up with a girlfriend with a good job & hopes to buy around £140-£160 000 before he hits 25, but he's enjoying life at the mo' & doesn't want to give up his Focus ST. 1st young lady is going to climb the corporate ladder & wait till her desired mortgage is less than 80% of her earnings & 2nd young madam is resigned to dropping a sprog & landing a housing association with the first hopeless tosser that looks her way? I like her for her honesty !

These aren't juvenile deliquants, these are the products of good families, raised well & generally a credit to their parents.

It scares me just how different their priorities are to when I was their age. At age 16 me dad pretty much opened the back door & said "off ya go, good luck" with me mam stood behind him smiling. These 3 made it pretty clear to me that they & the majority of their 'mates' aren't focused on that first house as the basis for the rest of their financial lives, I got the impression that a lifestyle is far more important & they not prepared to drastically lower it to take on a massive mortgage & lose whatever disposable income they currently enjoy.

I learned a lot from them, cost me a few drinks but I learned a lot that I have probably sheltered myself from recently . . .

 

[sxturbo]

It's dirt cheap where you live.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Really ? You said

Heres a puzzle for you - where do you think they should live if they work there?

To which I replied

Beggars can't be choosers, if you were unemployed and desperate, you would take what was offered.

Yes, you did.

Unfortunately for you, that wasn't in an answer to my question.

In Post #43 I said that employers should be made to pay people enough.

In #45 you asked what is enough.

In #47 I replied

Enough to be able to eat properly.
Enough to be able to feed your kids properly
Enough to be able to clothe them properly.
Enough to be able to afford decent housing.
Enough to be able to provide a life so that your kids dont grow up feeling that they are not part of society.
Enough so that if you get ill your life doesnt fall apart.​

In #48, for each of those you asked "Which is how much?"

To that, in #50, I said

I dont know the specific amount, but I do know from widespread and long time reporting that the lowest paid dont get paid enough to afford those things.

Do you think they do?​

In #51 you asked "What things. necessities or luxuries ?"

In #52 I answered "Stop wriggling, and refer to the earlier post."

And in #54 you answered "food, clothing, heating, yes. TV, iphone , designer clothes, NO."

So where we were at then was that you had partially answered the question from #50 about whether you thought low paid people earned enough to be able to afford the things Ilisted in #47.

Where we were at then was that you had said that you thought low paid people earned enough to be able to afford "food, clothing, heating," but not "TV, iphone , designer clothes".

Where we were at then was that you had not said whether or not you thought low paid people could afford decent housing.

But you keep insisting you have, even going so far as to quote an answer you gave to a different question, which was where do you think people should live if they work in London, not whether or not you thought low paid people could afford decent housing.

Remind me again who is

just too thick to take note

?

most property in London is expensive, any pensioner on a state pension or child whose parents receive child benefit are doing so at the tax payers expense

So which way round is the problem there? What would you change to make the situation to your liking?

Would you stop allowing any pensioner on a state pension or child whose parents receive child benefit to live in London?

Or would you stop anyone who lives in London from getting a state pension or child benefit?

The only other solution I can come up with is to find a way to ensure that all employers pay enough so that child benefit cant be claimed and which build up a private pension big enough for the tax to cancel out the state pension....

so you don't think 366,00 is a huge number ?

Context matters.

If you said that a huge number of people had mismatched eye colours and it turned out that it was 0.005% of the population of the world I dont think I would agree that it was a "huge number".

 

[Ihavenojob]

Enough to be able to afford decent housing.

There are plenty of affordable housing within commuter distance from London, I was on about people in London who don't work.

So which way round is the problem there? What would you change to make the situation to your liking?

Stop building in London and the South East, it is overcrowded and expensive. The only reason they build there is that they can get more profit.

If you said that a huge number of people had mismatched eye colours and it turned out that it was 0.005% of the population of the world I dont think I would agree that it was a "huge number".

390,00 is a huge number. If MP's decided to give themselves a 390,000% pay rise it would be OK with you as 390,000 is only a small number ?
Chill out, you'll burst a blood vesel.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

There are plenty of affordable housing within commuter distance from London,

Define "affordable". Dont forget to add in the costs of commuting, will you.

Define "commuter distance".

I was on about people in London who don't work.

Yes, weve established that.

Weve also established that I was asking about people who were in work, and whether you thought that they earned enough to afford decent housing.

We wait to see whether your theory on "affordable housing within commuter distance from London" stands up to scrutiny, or if its an idea which you havent properly thought through.

Stop building in London and the South East, it is overcrowded and expensive.

But I thought your idea for where people in low-paid jobs in London should live is "within commuter distance from London", so how will that work if we stop building in London and the SE?

Please explain - I mean, you have properly thought this through, havent you?

390,00 is a huge number. If MP's decided to give themselves a 390,000% pay rise it would be OK with you as 390,000 is only a small number ?

For years there have been complaints about the poor investment in the rail infrastructure in the north of the country.

If as part of his "levelling up" promise BJ announced a £390,000 capital investment plan for rail infrastucture improvement, I wonder how many people would consider that a "huge" investment?

You, and everybody else with no understanding of context, I guess.

 

[Ihavenojob]

You, and everybody else with no understanding of context, I guess.

So the UK death rate from covid is a small number, or a huge number?

 

[Ihavenojob]

But I thought your idea for where people in low-paid jobs in London should live is "within commuter distance from London", so how will that work if we stop building in London and the SE?

A person on minimum wage in London would be worse off than a person on minimum wage in Burnley, build houses there and people would more likely be able to buy a house. When my wife worked in Paddington at a Porsche place, there was someone commuting from IOW, so that must be within commuter distance from London.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Define "affordable"

affordable
[əˈfôrdəb(ə)l]
ADJECTIVE

1. inexpensive; reasonably priced.
   "affordable housing"
   synonyms:
   cheap · low-priced · low-price · low-cost · economical · economic · competitive · reasonable · reasonably priced · moderately priced · keenly priced · budget · economy · cheap and cheerful · bargain · cut-rate · cut-price · half-price · sale-price · sale · reduced ·
   [More]

Define "commuter distance".

Definition of 'commute'
commute
(kəmjuːtExplore 'commute' in the dictionary
VERB
If you commute, you travel a long distance every day between your home and your place of work. [...]
commuterWord forms: plural commutersCOUNTABLE NOUN
commuting UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
Definition of 'distance'
distance
(dɪstənsExplore 'distance' in the dictionary
VARIABLE NOUN
The distance between two points or places is the amount of space between them. [...]
So commuter distance would be the DISTANCE a COMMUTER ( that means someone who commutes)travels from home to work.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

So the UK death rate from covid is a small number, or a huge number?

I dont know. Again, context is important. If it were 3600 but comparisons with other countries showed it could have been 360 one might well observe that "the UK suffered a huge death toll". If it were 3.6m but comparisons with other countries showed it could have been 36M one might well observe that "The UK got off lightly - some countries had huge death tolls".

Either you really cannot understand the significance of importance, or for some reason you think its clever and helpful to pretend that you dont.

Please answer these, and not with more questions:

If as part of his "levelling up" promise BJ announced a £366,000 capital investment plan for rail infrastucture improvements in the North, would you consider that a "huge" investment?

Do you think that Coventry and Bradford are huge cities?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

A person on minimum wage in London would be worse off than a person on minimum wage in Burnley, build houses there and people would more likely be able to buy a house.

So is commuting from Burnley to London a feasible thing to do? Genuine question, which anybody who had properly thought through their plan to house low-paid London workers there would be able to answer.

You have properly thought this through, yes?

When my wife worked in Paddington at a Porsche place, there was someone commuting from IOW, so that must be within commuter distance from London.

Really?

Do you know how they commuted? Was it daily, or weekly?

According to Google Maps, its a 3+ to 4+ hour drive each way, I think if you wanted to be sure of being there by, say 08:30 on a weekday youd have to leave your home (I assumed Cowes) not long after 4 AM. If you wanted to go by train youd have to start your journey around midnight.

I have to say I dont think that commuting from the IoW to Paddington sounds like something anybody would choose to do.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

affordable
[əˈfôrdəb(ə)l]
ADJECTIVE

1. 
   
2. inexpensive; reasonably priced.
   "affordable housing"
   synonyms:
   cheap · low-priced · low-price · low-cost · economical · economic · competitive · reasonable · reasonably priced · moderately priced · keenly priced · budget · economy · cheap and cheerful · bargain · cut-rate · cut-price · half-price · sale-price · sale · reduced ·
   [More]

Very helpful.

Please define "affordable housing" in terms of the price of it, either to buy or rent. Assume the purchaser/renter is working a 40-hour week at the minumum wage.

Definition of 'commute'
commute
(kəmjuːtExplore 'commute' in the dictionary
VERB
If you commute, you travel a long distance every day between your home and your place of work. [...]
commuterWord forms: plural commutersCOUNTABLE NOUN
commuting UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
Definition of 'distance'
distance
(dɪstənsExplore 'distance' in the dictionary
VARIABLE NOUN
The distance between two points or places is the amount of space between them. [...]
So commuter distance would be the DISTANCE a COMMUTER ( that means someone who commutes)travels from home to work.

Very helpful. Please define "commuter distance" in terms of an actual distance, or a journey time. Assume that the costs have to be affordable to someone working a 40-hour week at the minumum wage, that they need to use public transport, and recognise that the nature of many low-paid jobs in London is that they involve very early starts or very late finishes.

Again - neither of these are rhetorical questions, they are of real significance, which anybody who had properly thought through the affordability of housing and the affordability and practicality of commuting when they devised a plan to house low-paid London workers outside of London would be able to answer.

You have properly thought this through, yes?

 

[Ihavenojob]

Again, context is important.

Only you bought up context Himmy, I said huge numbers.

So is commuting from Burnley to London a feasible thing to do? Genuine question, which anybody who had properly thought through their plan to house low-paid London workers there would be able to answer.

Where did I say they would commute from Burnley to London ?

Do you know how they commuted? Was it daily, or weekly?

Daily, and by train. Some people make the effort to work

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

A person on minimum wage in London would be worse off than a person on minimum wage in Burnley, build houses there and people would more likely be able to buy a house.

Where did I say they would commute from Burnley to London ?

You implied the possibility. Affordability of houses in Burnley, by people on London wages is a different kettle of fish to affordability for people on Burnley wages.