Garage Gym Heating / Insulation

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Hi All

I hope this is the correct Forum Topic to be posting in as it involves parts of the other topics.

I have a standard 6 x 3.3 m Garage with an apex roof not flat, 1 side door, 1 side window, and a Metal garage door. The garage is just plain, Concrete floor, concrete block. The garage has no insulation, flooring or heating.

At the moment I use the garage as a gym. Now the garage has always been cold but the recent snow fall in Scotland had my garage sitting at temperatures below -6 and my garage became to cold to train in.

So what I am looking to do, is make it damp proof and insulate and heat the garage so I can use it any time of the year comfortably.

I have no idea how to go about this and as its just for a gym, as cheap as possible would be ideal. I look forward to your comments and suggestions.

Cheers

Dougie
 
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If it's single skin wall something like this will do you can save money buy using rockwool as insulation, you will need a vapour check barrier this can come fitted to plasterboard or be installed separate. http://www.insulation.kingspan.com/uk/pdf/tw55.pdf
If you have electrics in there, when insulating don't completely cover/surround the cable with it, as it will effect the current that can be safely carried by the cable.
 
is this a permanent change and do you still need to be able to put the car in there?

if not then the first thing to go should be the garage door..

2 choices..
1. stud wall in front of the door and leave it in place..
2. remove it, brick wall to window height then a large DG window put in ..
 
Hi Thanks for the replys.

Sorry not sure what you mean by single skin, it is only one cement block thick apart from the support pillars.

No this cant be too permenant so the garage door will have to stay, I do like the idea of putting up a stud wall, the only problem is some of the equipment is too big to go in the side door and has to be moved via the garage door, so the stud wall would have to be done after all the other changes.
 
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Seems to be concrete 'kit' garage , slabs slid into retaining posts, had one of these before I replaced with brick built.
Difficult to damp proof as the floor to wall seal is usually little more than a wedge of cement.Helps to have guttering on both sides to avoid rain splashing up walls and soaking thru.
You could put in lift off doors behind existing with insulation fixed to them so once equipment is in they can be lifted into situ and seal the door end of the garage.
Would'nt bother with heating in a gym, I break into a sweat in this weather even working outside.
 
sounds like a block built garage rather than a pre-fab.. the pilars are needed every so far because it's a big flat area to present to any wind otherwise..
 
Hi

Thanks for the replys.. Yeah its a block built garage. Still looking around different places for ideas, doesnt look like its gonna be possible on a tight budget though.
 
I would suggest that whatever you spend will take quite a few years to recover your costs compared to heating.
For example, using a 2.5/3 Kw heater to remove the chill in order to continue to train will cost x amount. You will only be using it for a couple of hours each week, (say x/80 to bring it into line with average calculations). And perhaps only in the depths of winter, so for a few weeks each year, (say [x/80]/17 to bring it into line with average calculations).

Any payback period for any amount of money spent will have to take the above consideration into account.

So, if under normal circumstances you could expect a payback period of 10 years. In your case it will probably be more like 100 years.
 
Hi Redherring

Thanks for the reply, the initial investment to do the work will just be written off, no period of payback is expected.

I also train someone else and I am actually losing money due to the fact that the garage even today has a temperature of around 0 which for safe training is still far too cold. Hence I am losing money from my trainee.

Also the garage is used for at least 3 hours a day 7 days a week if not more.
 
try looking for self adhesive insulation spikes..
they are long aluminium rods with a square base with double sided tape on them..

you stick them at intervals to the walls and "hang" rockwool on them..

alternatively, you get 2 x 4's and batton out the walls and insulate in between..

the floor and the garage door is the biggest problems..
 
Hi Redherring

Thanks for the reply, the initial investment to do the work will just be written off, no period of payback is expected. ../
/.....
Also the garage is used for at least 3 hours a day 7 days a week if not more.

Point taken. But when we're talking about payback period it is like this:
suppose you spend £500 on insulation how long will it take you to recoup that in savings on the heating bill?

You say you have no heating installed. It doesn't matter how much insulation you have you'll still need some heating to take the chill off the room initially. Granted, once you're in there training the heating might become redundant.
So, basically I'm saying if you spend, say £500 on insulation, which is perhaps an absolute minimum amount, (100mm rockwool for ceiling alone = £100) it's going to take you 100 years to save that much on your heating bill. (OK may be an exaggeration but you get the point).
Within reason, however much you insulate the room, in these types of temperatures it's still going to be freezing in there initially. Even with insulation there's still a heatloss from the room. Overnight, no heating, ergo freezing in there in the morning.

The other consideration is, once you're adding insulation, you might need to consider adding ventilation, especially for a gym

I mentioned insulating the ceiling, and I'm surprised no-one has mentioned doing that first. But you're going to have to find a way of supporting the insulation up there. Either by netting (Yuk!) or timber 'joists'.
I agree the door is important also.
So a stab at a budget: £100 for ceiling, £100 for each long wall, £100 for door, £50 for short wall. This is perhaps insulation only, not including any timber battens/joists etc.
You need to consider at least £500 and up to £1,000 for insulation only.
But you'll still have a cold garage/gym until you're training and warming it up!
And we've not touched on the damp-proofing.
If, on a tight budget, that is where I would concentrate my efforts, that and heating. And don't forget to consider ventilation, especially for a gym.
But if you're going to close off areas, such as ceiling, it makes sense to insulate behind them.
 
Hi Redherring

Again thanks for your reply and comments, I am sorry if I sounded a little snippy on my reply, it didnt mean to come across that way. After looking at what I would like to do the cheap option sort of goes out the window :)

I have the following Idea, just like some opinions..

Floor
!) Lay a damp proof membrane on the concrete floor.
2) Build a false floor laying wood batons at spaced intervals. Insulate with rock wool. Then create the new floor using 50mm thick sheets of wood (Not sure what to use here) I felt 50mm for security as heavy weights will be getting used or is this overkill?
3) I will stud and baton the walls, then insulate with rockwool, as its a gym not sure what I should use for the facing (Wood sheets or Plasterboard??)
4) I am going to build a stud and baton wall in front of the garage door, Insulate it with rockwool and again either Wood sheets or plasterboard for the facing??
5) Roof, as its an apex roof and has plenty of joists will just use thicker plaster board, attach it to the joists and insulate as I go along

As for ventilation, my garage has 4 vetilation points on the wall and I also have a window with 2 small top windows that open, this should be enough ventilation I hope.

For heating I was thinking of 4 oil filled tubular 100w heaters at floor level attached to each wall, I have heard these are quite good? Any ideas?

For the weights section I will also put down rubber matting.

I also have a few questions..

What is the best way to attach the batons to the walls and floor?
What is the best material used for the walls and roof?? Platerboard, Sheet timber?

Any other ideas and suggestions?


Cheers

Dougie
 
I am sorry if I sounded a little snippy on my reply,
I didn't see it lke that so no apology required.

!) Lay a damp proof membrane on the concrete floor.
2) Build a false floor laying wood batons at spaced intervals. Insulate with rock wool. Then create the new floor using 50mm thick sheets of wood (Not sure what to use here) I felt 50mm for security as heavy weights will be getting used or is this overkill?
I would lay a vapour control barrier over the wood batens to prevent moisture soaking the insulation. Sheet polythene or foil, thinner than the DPM. Screwfix do a 1.5 meter X 50 meter roll for £150. Tape the joins also.
I don't think your 50 mm floor is overkill at all for weights impacting. You need to consider carefully the joists spacing and I would suggest a post specifically on that topic in the Floors, stairs & lofts section to pick the brains of the experts. Bearing in mind that a 20mm board is used for normal floors. You can often pick up old conveyor belts at some farm type auctions.
3) I will stud and baton the walls, then insulate with rockwool, as its a gym not sure what I should use for the facing (Wood sheets or Plasterboard??)
4) I am going to build a stud and baton wall in front of the garage door, Insulate it with rockwool and again either Wood sheets or plasterboard for the facing??
Don't forget the vapour control barriers in the walls also.
Plyboard, MDF,plaster board..it's your choice. I would take the most cost-effective route. It's not like a public gym where people are likely to bounce off the walls. Search on insulating solid walls in the Building section. You could use thermal board which is plasterboard backed with insulation, which you stick on.
5) Roof, as its an apex roof and has plenty of joists will just use thicker plaster board, attach it to the joists and insulate as I go along
Vapour control barrier again. Will there be ventilation to the 'loft' space that you will create? You'll need some.
As for ventilation, my garage has 4 vetilation points on the wall and I also have a window with 2 small top windows that open, this should be enough ventilation I hope.

For heating I was thinking of 4 oil filled tubular 100w heaters at floor level attached to each wall
You may need to think about forced ventilation and controllable ventilation. i.e you may need to increase the ventilation over & above natural ventilation whern the gym is used but reduce the ventilation overnight.
If the heaters are thermastatically controlled so much the better.
 
Sorry about the curtness of the previous post, it was done in a rush.
A few extra points:

If you specify your problems into the appropriate forums you might receive better and more expert response, as you have many different queries.

You say you are currently using the garage as a gym, so I assume that apart from the temperature it has been acceptable? If so I would concentrate my efforts on heating, ventilation and air conditioning.

Heating: Your 400 watts of heating is absolute minimum, I would suspect that it will still require about 1 hour to raise the temperature of the air alone by a few degrees, not considering heat loss to all objects in the room and the roof/ceiling, walls and floor. I guess the objects in the room are going to 'soak up' the heat. You ought to consider putting the heating on a time clock to come on well before you wake up, or even leaving it on at night on a thermostat.

Ventilation: I mentioned before about considering forced, controllable ventilation. Natural ventilation often relies on air pressure difference generated by prevailing winds. Often no wind means far less ventilation. You'll need to increase the ventilation while you're training due to higher humidity (& maybe need to raise the temperature of the incoming air). Similarly you'll want to decrease the ventilation overnight to conserve heat and give the heating a chance in the mornings. Dehumidifier might help with humidity but won't remove odours ;)

Air conditioning: I assume that you have a similar but opposite problem in the summer. If you do install air conditioning you'll want to reduce the ventilation. Air conditioning will also act as a dehumidifier.

Floor - 50mm thick board. Not sure what material you'll find this thickness. You could laminate with 2X25mm plyboard. But you'll only need this thickness in areas that weights may be dropped. Normally one layer of 25mm plyboard will be adequate. Normal floors are chipboard which is weaker and more prone to failure due to damp. Again ask for advice on the other forums. I would think you'd need to lay the upper layer at right angles to the lower. Again ask in Gym-specific forums assuming there are such things on the 'net. What I said about insulation especially applies to floors in that payback period is perhaps longest on floor insulation.
So consider not insulating the floor and laying one layer of plyboard direct on the concrete floor over the top of the dpm. This will then provide a sacrificial floor if necessary. You'll need to consider the problem of laying the dpm direct onto the concrete because it will suffer from any defects in the concrete surface. May be better to consider a painted dpm on the surface or laying some form of cushionning material that is not subject to damp, in order to preserve the life of the dpm. Alternatively use a marine/exterior grade plyboard which will withstand moisture and therefore no dpm needed.

Fixing battens to walls may not be necesary. You can fix a 'sole plate' to the floor and a 'header' to the ceiling joists. Studwork on the wall will then be fixed between these.

Your wall finish is a cost/aesthetics/performance/workability choice. Plasterboard perhaps is the best aesthetic choice and maybe the best performance. Again ask in the other forums.

To summarise I would prioritise:
Heating with appropriate controls
Ventilation with appropriate controls & possibly dehumidifier
Air conditioning can be considered at a later date but plan for it now.
Ceiling and insulation. How's your headheight? Consider insulation direct to under rafters so as to maintain headheight. Then you don't need a ceiling.
Garage Door!
Floor covering as discussed above.
Walls.

This can also allow a phased schedule over a period of time.
Finally, but not least, one other consideration: Single skin blockwork exterior finish. Is it porous? If so you need to address this issue.
 

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