Garden Lighting Advice

[d438a1]

Hi there,

I have an outside power point which i would like to utilise for some garden lighting. I would like to have 2 areas of lighting - each with about 4 x 50w Low voltage spike spotlights.

The first zone is about 20m from power and the 2nd about 30m from power. Owing to voltage drop I believe I need to have the transformer next to the area of lighting - so this means 240v cable from the power to the lighting areas.

What are the options for doing this? And what are the options around hiding it? I am just in the middle of construting a closeboard fence on one size of the garden - so maybe options to hide in cavity behind gravel board and construct some sort of box?

Any ideas welcome...

 

[ericmark]

I would look at LED which would reduce current and not be so dependent on correct voltage.

There are lamps designed for pond use that is other option.

 

[d438a1]

ok I'll take a look at those. Does this mean I can run much larger distances from transformer to light fitting?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Low voltage lighting does not need a transformer.

Did you mean extra low voltage?

 

[flameport]

Over those distances, any type of ELV lighting is a bust due to voltage drop.
Fit 240V lights instead.

 

[d438a1]

It seems different sites use the terms interchangeably... I'm talking about ones with transformers.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It seems different sites use the terms interchangeably... I'm talking about ones with transformers.

We use the correct terms around here. It's the terms defined in the Wiring Regulations, and avoids confusion.

Lighting operating at less than 50v ac is defined as Extra Low Voltage.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What are the options for doing this? And what are the options around hiding it? I am just in the middle of construting a closeboard fence on one size of the garden - so maybe options to hide in cavity behind gravel board and construct some sort of box?

What's the other side of the fence? Think if someone might reasonably do something which damages the cable.

At the very least you would need to use armoured cable. Or galvanised steel conduit.

Burying the cable would be better. http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.13.3.htm

 

[JohnW2]

We use the correct terms around here. It's the terms defined in the Wiring Regulations, and avoids confusion. Lighting operating at less than 50v ac is defined as Extra Low Voltage.

Less confusion amongst electricians, but (IMO) more confusion amongst the great majority of the general public! Just stop a few dozen people in the street and ask them what they understand by 'low voltage lighting'

As a further matter of accuracy, as you know, the definitions come from a much higher authority than the UK Wiring Regs.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

It seems different sites use the terms interchangeably... I'm talking about ones with transformers.

Low and high are terms that really only have meaning in context.

The wiring regs use voltage bands that were clearly chosen from a power engineers perspective. So in that context >1000V is "high voltage" and <1000V is "low voltage". When voltages lower than the normal domestic supply voltage and generally safe to touch came into use in building installations the standards had already used the term "low voltage" so they called the new band of voltages "extra low voltage".

Lighting vendors on the other hand tend to use "low voltage" to mean voltages lower than the normal mains voltage in a house. This makes perfect sense to laypeople and presumablly to applicance designers who would never go near a voltage higher than mains voltage but irks electricians who belive that the terms should only be used with the meaning the wiring regs give them.

IMO it's best to just state the voltage you are talking about and only use terms like "low voltage" and "high voltage" in the context of a document that either defines what it means by those terms or references a document that defines them. Using those terms in any other context is ambiguous.

 

[JohnW2]

Lighting vendors on the other hand tend to use "low voltage" to mean voltages lower than the normal mains voltage in a house. This makes perfect sense to laypeople and presumablly to applicance designers who would never go near a voltage higher than mains voltage but irks electricians who belive that the terms should only be used with the meaning the wiring regs give them.

Quite so. However, given how ubiquitous is the 'incorrect' understanding by the general public, one wonders to what extent is is reasonable (or even safe) to allow the 'irks' of electricians (a tiny proportion of the community) to influence/confuse the situation.

IMO it's best to just state the voltage you are talking about and only use terms like "low voltage" and "high voltage" in the context of a document that either defines what it means by those terms or references a document that defines them. Using those terms in any other context is ambiguous.

Quite - that's the ideal, but this horse has already bolted. So many people believe they understand what 'low voltage lighting' (or whatever) means, that the situation is not going to change any time soon.

For those who 'take posters to task' over this issue, I would suggest that it is probably never going to happen that a non-electrician is going to post on a forum like this and talk of 'low voltage lighting' when what they are referring to is 230V!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Quite so. However, given how ubiquitous is the 'incorrect' understanding by the general public, one wonders to what extent is is reasonable (or even safe) to allow the 'irks' of electricians (a tiny proportion of the community) to influence/confuse the situation.

It's more than reasonable - it is absolutely essential, otherwise people will think that the law does not apply to them.

Quite - that's the ideal, but this horse has already bolted. So many people believe they understand what 'low voltage lighting' (or whatever) means, that the situation is not going to change any time soon.

Ignorance is unacceptable - always has been, always will be.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What majority of the population getting something wrong determines it then be correct?

If 12V is called 'low voltage', then
240V must be 'high voltage' so
what do we call >1,000V? Extra-high voltage?

Therefore -
12V is Extra-low voltage or Low voltage.
240V is Low voltage or High voltage.
>1000V is High voltage or Extra-high.

Just a mess so the correct term must be used.

------------------------------------------------------

With language this is called 'evolution' and rather than correct their wrong behaviour it gradually becomes the norm and therefore 'correct' - a ludicrous situation.

How long before to possess something becomes -

I OF
You OF
He HAS
We OF
You OF
They OF

Pedantic? No, correct. So that other people actually understand and know what you mean

It just shows people are ignorant - appropriately, in the true sense of the word.

I really don't know why this is considered acceptable.

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

 

[JohnW2]

It's more than reasonable - it is absolutely essential, otherwise people will think that the law does not apply to them.

I think you are highlighting the problem Given what most of the general public believe (whether you like it or not), I suspect that if they actually read that bit of Part P (thankfully, very few do) they would probably end up concluding that Part P does not apply to 'mains' wiring! Again, whether you like it or not, the great majority of the general public are not going to be 'educated' by electricians any time soon. That being the case, Part P really ought to be written in language which will be understood by most of the general public (that could be done without saying anything which electricians regarded as 'incorrect' - by just talking about voltages, rather than LV/ELV).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Maybe it ought, but it isn't, and until then ignorance is no excuse and it is to be challenged at all times.