Gas Meter Mistake ?

[flosag]

can anyone answer this please,
I own a launderette, My gas supplier has changed my Actaris MDA25 u25 Gas Meter for a Elster BK-G16M Gas Meter so that the supplier could fix a read communicator to it. Ever since the meter was installed I have had dozens of problems with my gas appliances not lighting sometimes and coming up with a no flame fault code. Before the meter change I had no flame faults at all. I have not added or taken away any gas appliances since this meter change in 2014 , and the last time any gas appliances were changed was 2006. All gas appliances are serviced by a Gas Safe Engineer once every year, the last time 6 months ago, every time we have a gas fault , the Gas safe engineer attends and resets the faults or changes parts like flame probes and ignition boxes and ignition spark probes, he agrees with me that these faults occurring after the meter change could be significant , he calculates we are near the maximum that our meter can supply, but he is not that sure if the two meters are the same size or not, I had a photo of the old meter, the new meter that was fitted is much smaller in size and the fitter had to put a breeze block under it to make it fit and there is a lot more space behind it than the old one, I asked the fitter at the time of the meter change about the size difference and he told me it should be ok, the latest gas fault code was yesterday. And it is usually mornings on a cold day I have complained to my supplier who says my meter according to his records was changed like for like, although I notice V = 6dm3 on my new meter and V= 10dm3 on my old meter, and Qmin = 0.16m3/h on my new meter and Qmin =0.5m3/h on my old meter. They say I will have to pay for an up grade if I want a bigger meter or pay £200 if I want the meter tested. When I told them the previous meter was ok , they weren't interested.
My maximum Kw usage if all appliances are on is 284Kwh, do you think a BK-G16M meter is a correct replacement for my old MDA 25 u25 please.

 

[keego]

If the G16 is the same as a U16 then the max KW load is 172kw, U25 269kw.
Check the front of the meter you may see a U16 somewhere on the dial area.

 

[Biggles..]

G16 is the same volume as a U25 normally....both 25m3/hr

25x10.8= 270ish KW

 

[Steelmasons]

Was a replacement governor fitted @ the same time the meter was installed?

First port of call would be changing the governor (sticking on first appliance usage of the day).

 

[flosag]

Was a replacement governor fitted @ the same time the meter was installed?

First port of call would be changing the governor (sticking on first appliance usage of the day).

a new governor was fitted at the same time as the meter.
Does a lower V capacity mean anything and a lower Q min mean anything does anyone know please ?

 

[MrTherm]

Just a suggestion,

Q min is the minimum volumetric flow rate

Your old meter was 0.5m3/h
Your new meter is 0.16m3/h

Therefore your old meter had a bigger minimum flow rate limit.

As the problems of the appliances are shared or random, it suggests the sequence of lighting is relationally important to the appliance lighting problems.

This means that any appliances already burning gas will affect the start rate of the appliances that light up after and will be accommodated by the max flow rate of the meter whereas any singular first lit appliance burning below the Q min rate will have some difficulty in overcoming the initial meter limitations, especially such as pilot burner start systems.

You need a technical representative of the gas supplier to quantify the situation

 

[flosag]

Just a suggestion,

Q min is the minimum volumetric flow rate

Your old meter was 0.5m3/h
Your new meter is 0.16m3/h

Therefore your old meter had a bigger minimum flow rate limit.

As the problems of the appliances are shared or random, it suggests the sequence of lighting is relationally important to the appliance lighting problems.

This means that any appliances already burning gas will affect the start rate of the appliances that light up after and will be accommodated by the max flow rate of the meter whereas any singular first lit appliance burning below the Q min rate will have some difficulty in overcoming the initial meter limitations, especially such as pilot burner start systems.

You need a technical representative of the gas supplier to quantify the situation

Thank you for your reply, which I am afraid I don't understand, is my new meter able to supply gas to my appliances as my old meter did, my supplier has already stated that as far as they are concerned the replaced meter is like for like, so at moment unless I can argue different, they will not be sending me a technical representative, thanks anyway for trying to help me,
many thanks

 

[Biggles..]

http://www.elstermetering.co.uk/en/2300.html

Above is the link for your exact meter.

Please read and take note that your new meter is a 25m3/hr meter!!!!! That would be the same size as your old U25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your new meter has a lower minimum flow meaning it will allow smaller appliances to run, and register!
You want low Qmin!

Your new meter is better than your old and the same size.

 

[flosag]

http://www.elstermetering.co.uk/en/2300.html

Above is the link for your exact meter.

Please read and take note that your new meter is a 25m3/hr meter!!!!! That would be the same size as your old U25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your new meter has a lower minimum flow meaning it will allow smaller appliances to run, and register!
You want low Qmin!

Your new meter is better than your old and the same size.

Thanks for your reply, so as you say, my new meter is better than my old meter, the lower V rating and lower Q min flow rating on my new meter is a good thing and will have no effect on my appliances. I am now puzzled by what is wrong with my gas tumble dryers, I cannot replicate a Gas fault on them, one or two will go into no flame fault code randomly, when everything is working and using gas. the dryers can have no faults, sometimes several weeks between faults, generally these faults occur on a cold day in the mornings before 9am, I have had no faults in the summer, the faults occurred last winter and this winter, this has only happened since the meter change, my gas engineer has checked the pressure at 21 bar from the meter and 11 bar after the gas valve of each Dryer which is as per spec, he says the supply line is the right size too.
He has never been able to test when a fault code appears as we cannot replicate it. I wish I had my old meter and not allowed it to be changed, as we never had gas faults with that meter. I am now wondering if there could be a partial blockage in the supply line after the meter, that randomly blocks every couple of weeks or something like that. Thanks for trying to help me with this.

 

[Biggles..]

Was a replacement governor fitted @ the same time the meter was installed?

First port of call would be changing the governor (sticking on first appliance usage of the day).

4th post, and very likely to be the exact issue.

 

[flosag]

Was a replacement governor fitted @ the same time the meter was installed?

First port of call would be changing the governor (sticking on first appliance usage of the day).

4th post, and very likely to be the exact issue.

I wonder how much luck I will have getting the supplier to change the new governor. Do you know of a test my engineer can carry out to prove it suspect please ?

 

[Agile]

In a situation like this my first test would be the supply pressure when each appliance is lit one at a time!

That needs to be measured using a water gauge ( as they respond quicker ) and done by a gas reg engineer.

Does anyone know what these meters do when a gas flow below the minimum is taken? Is the minimum what it will deliver or just the minimum that it will record?

Tony

 

[Biggles..]

And what type of engineer with which competences do you propose he use Tony?

 

[Agile]

Technically, it needs to be one with commercial pipework!