Gas pipe size

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Hi, I have had a plumber round to quote for fitting a new Vaillant boiler to a small 2 bed, 1 bathroom house.

There is existing iron pipe (I think, definitely not copper as it has threaded fittings) under the floor that feeds a gas fire via a reducer and then normal 15mm copper pipe. I was hoping that the end of the thicker iron pipe could be used to feed the new boiler, but the plumber wants to do a new run from the meter in 28mm pipe that would either go through several rooms in the house, or up the external wall.

As well as being expensive in materials, either option won’t look great. I questioned the need for 28mm and if my existing pipe could be used, but he wanted to be ‘safe and do it properly’. Obviously I want a safe and correct installation, but the use of 28mm seems excessive and he didn’t do any calculations. Is 28mm really necessary, would a calculation with lengths and bends etc show if my existing pipe would be adequate or not?

I have seen a house where the 22mm pipe form the meter goes straight to 15mm under the floor and continues in 15mm all the way to just above the kitchen at the other end of the house, where it turns to 22mm and reappears from the ceiling and feeds a combi boiler and gas hob. This setup always passes the CP12 test every year for correct working pressures, etc – so if that works with 15mm it seems reasonable that the iron or possibly just 22mm could be ok – assuming a calculation was done?
 
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How long, what size is the steel, how many bends and tees, what size boiler, fire, cooker, hob.

3/4" (20mm) steel may do, but without information it can't be calculated.

I would guess the heating guy is spot on.
 
Thanks for your quick reply!

Fair enough if the guy is correct, but if my installation needs 28mm pipe, how come a similar length installation with 15mm pipe and plenty of bends works fine and passes the CP12 tests!?

Not sure about steel pipe size, it's OD is similar to 22mm copper, there are 7 bends, 1 tee feeding the fire which is a Baxi (not sure of spec at present), 30 kw boiler, no hob, no cooker (all electric) and the length of steel is approx 7M. That is what exists now.

It would then go to copper (22mm or 28mm) and travel another 8M with 3 bends before reaching the boiler.

Sounds like a maths problem from school, lol.

PS, just checked the boiler spec sheet for the EcoTec Plus 630 and the inlet gas pipe size is only 15mm, it obviously still needs 20mBar at that input... but to my untrained brain it seems a bit odd to have 28 mm going to 15mm + that's not something I remember seeing around.
 
Look mate,

You've been told what size pipe you need, why are you questioning it? The guy did do the calcs - in his head. You think we enjoy running a large gas pipe if its not needed? Working pressure wouldn't usually be tested at the meter on a cp12, and its not relevent unless you already have a 30kw combi.

If you don't trust him get more quotes , simple.
 
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What boiler?
How long would a rope be following the route of the gaspipe?
 
Just because a meanie landlord has an undersized gas supply pipe it does not mean that it meets the regulations.

Getting quotes from cowboys who dont correctly size the gas pipe is not a correct option either.

This guy, just like me, wants to do it properly and is not prepared to do a substandard job.

He is good and will do it as it should be done!

Tony
 
Can't see a problem with his calculations. If you want to keep the mild steel pipe then there is a chance of rust particles floating up and into your nice new boilers gas valve. :oops:
 
Thanks for your quick reply!

Fair enough if the guy is correct, but if my installation needs 28mm pipe, how come a similar length installation with 15mm pipe and plenty of bends works fine and passes the CP12 tests!?

Not sure about steel pipe size, it's OD is similar to 22mm copper, there are 7 bends, 1 tee feeding the fire which is a Baxi (not sure of spec at present), 30 kw boiler, no hob, no cooker (all electric) and the length of steel is approx 7M. That is what exists now.

It would then go to copper (22mm or 28mm) and travel another 8M with 3 bends before reaching the boiler.

Sounds like a maths problem from school, lol.

PS, just checked the boiler spec sheet for the EcoTec Plus 630 and the inlet gas pipe size is only 15mm, it obviously still needs 20mBar at that input... but to my untrained brain it seems a bit odd to have 28 mm going to 15mm + that's not something I remember seeing around.

3/4" OD is 1/2" steel.

A quick calc with the information provided, and 28mm is the minimum size required for the load and length.
 
but to my untrained brain it seems a bit odd to have 28 mm going to 15mm + that's not something I remember seeing around.

Perhaps you wonder how the milk comes out of the bottle when the screw cap is smaller than the bottle diameter?
 
Don't get hung up on the 15mm gas valve. If the appliance needs a bigger diameter supply, that's what it needs, it gets reduced just before the inlet. The manufacturers don't supply a choice of different size valves.

Andy.
 
22m is the bare minimum i would use for that install but as he is going to have to run a new 22mm supply mayaswell make it future proof and install 28mm only a few extra quid,no problems then. if you want the job done right youve gota suck it up and pay for it, may aswell have it done right seen as your spending the money having a boiler fitted,

i tried gettin away with conecting on to a 15mm supply for a new combi when i was an apprentice, come commissioning no DHW, ended up having to run a new supply from the meter, bite the buttlet from the begining nowadays
 
22m is the bare minimum i would use for that install

Based on the incomplete details furnished your "bare minimum" would give an inadequate supply for a 42 kW boiler.

But it does say 15m of pipe and 10 elbows!

There is only one way to do it properly and thats to calculate whats needed and do it!
 
22m is the bare minimum i would use for that install

Based on the incomplete details furnished your "bare minimum" would give an inadequate supply for a 42 kW boiler.

But it does say 15m of pipe and 10 elbows!

There is only one way to do it properly and thats to calculate whats needed and do it!

hes said its a 30kw boiler, so wtf r u trying to be cocky for sayin it would be inadequate for a 42kw, if hed said hes having a 42kw boiler id adjust the pipe size to suit
 
You CANNOT "Guestimate" the sizing of a Gas pipe - we all know how to do it properly if 28mm is required then that is it!

If GS do an inspection and find low inlet pressure, they will put an enforcement order on the install and the installer will end up putting in a 28mm supply at his own cost!! - RISKY!!

If the new boiler breaks down and a warranty Engineer finds low inlet pressure he will walk!

Even the OP who is so against a correctly sized gas pipe will then make a lot of noise to the installer for not doing it right!! :rolleyes:
 

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