Gas "Pressure" issue?

[Aragorn84]

I've noticed for a while that there seems to be a fluctuation in the pressure of the gas to the cooker, depending on what the boilers doing.

If you have even just one ring on, and then the boiler flashes up, you can hear a reduction in the ferocity of the flame on the cooker. Obviously if you turn on 2 or 3 rings the effect is even more pronounced. When the boiler clicks off the ferocity returns.

Its a rented property, and to be honest i'm fairly fed up with the useless tradesman the landlord seems to employ, every single time it seems that a job is bodged as cheaply as possible. I dont imagine (or at least would hope not) its intentional on his part, i suspect its just bad choice of workmen, probably based on the cheapest quote.

Last year when we had our annual gas inspection, i mentioned it to the guy, and he went off and measured the pressure at the gas meter, said it was (from memory) slightly below spec at 18mbar and that was probably the reason, but that it was nothing to worry about and it wasnt something he could adjust anyway. He made no attempt to measure the pressure at the boiler itself. I also pointed out the ignition button on the cooker didnt work, and he initially claimed it was the battery (its not, i'd already checked) and then said he'd get a new switch for it (he didnt).

This year we've just had another annual inspection, and the guy didnt even remove the cover from the boiler. He peered in thru the little window in the casing and announced it was all fine. Perhaps i'm deluded, but surely this annual check up should involve some sort of servicing or check on the boiler internals?

After reading some other threads on here about boilers fed with undersize pipes, I'm now thinking that perhaps hes yet another cowbow/idiot/lazy-bast and the pressure fluctuation IS a problem and SHOULD be rectified.

What do you think?

 

[leezer3]

A gas guy will be along in a minute, but IIRC any flickering of flames is an immediate disconnection issue.

Broken ignition isn't an issue though as far as I'm aware, I've been using matches for years

 

[Aragorn84]

its not so much flickering, it just the "roar" gets slightly quieter, as though you'd turned the knob down a bit...

At a guess, the pipes undersize and the pressure is dropping?

 

[sooey]

You're right it is a problem if the boiler is affecting other appliances.
If you put a couple of rings on and turn one right down to simmer it may even go out when the boiler kicks in, try it. If that happens it's very naughty. It sounds like you've got one of those landlords who wants everything done on the cheap, and gets workmen accordingly.
You're also right in that that issue is usually caused by undersized pipework.
Whoever comes in needs to measure the pressure at the meter with everything going, and the pressure at each appliance with everything going.
There should be no more than a 1mb drop between the meter and each appliance.

 

[DP]

Aragorn84, check the person doing the testing has a Gas Safe card with boiler and cooker ticked off at the back of the card and it is current and also, details match at the front too.

Gas line indeed is undersized, hence the pressure drop when boiler fires as pipes cannot deliver the total amount the boiler and gas hob require.

You should have a copy of the gas report. It contains information relevant to your appliances. It is a safety check, therefore, if the hob burner was to extinguish when boiler fires, kitchen will fill with gas when boiler demand ceases, making the situatiuon a dangerous one. These are the tests the person completing the gas report is required to carry out.

Look at previous gas reports and see if the readings are the same (often are just read off the data plate even though the actual reading are something else). You can ask Gas Safety Inspector to visit and do a spot check- any deficiencies will be highlighted.

Lack of proper care and attention by the fitter does not automatically mean the landlord is always blameworthy. Every one looks for best prices, BUT the gas fitter MUST carry out his task dilligently and with proper care and attention. Failing that, he can end up in the clink

Your safety could be at risk. Do post for further guidance and help.

 

[Aragorn84]

Ah thats a good point, i'll try that out, as if it DOES go off, then i'll have something concrete i can shake at him. I suspect it doesnt drop enough to actually go out though.

DP; I didnt check his card, i looked up his number on the gas safe site though, and it says this:

[code:1]Domestic qualified for:

Combustion Analysis
Combustion Performance Analysis NG
Combustion Performance Analysis NG
Pipework
Pipework DOM NG (CORE)
Pipework DOM NG (CORE)
Flue Liners
Flue Liners
Vented Cyl
Vented Cylinders
Vented Cylinders
[/code:1]

Yeh i got a copy of the "Gas Safety Record". It lists both appliances, but it seems to just have some "yes/no" style boxes and all seems very vague.

The only thing on here that appears relevant is a field that says "operating pressure in mbar or heat input in KW" and hes wrote 18.31KW for the boiler and 7.61KW for the cooker.

No idea how hes conjured up those figures though. I think he lit the hob then went and timed something at the gas meter? The boiler is an Ideal Classic RS 360, which appears to be rated at 21.7kw according to the manual?

Cheers
Kevin[/code]

 

[joe-90]

If go 'shaking stuff' at him you might find that your lease isn't renewed. Are you prepared for that? You may be talking yourself out of somewhere to live.

 

[Aragorn84]

Just to add, i tried with three burners going full on the hob and one on the lowest setting, then clicked the boiler thermostat up and down to make it start up and there was no real change, it didnt flicker or anything, just the sound changes slightly. Theres a sort of momentary lul when the boiler first fires, then the sound settles to a slightly quieter roar than it was without the boiler on.

 

[plumbplumb]

No idea how hes conjured up those figures though. I think he lit the hob then went and timed something at the gas meter? [/code]

He probably conjured them up with a stopwatch and some mathematics

 

[Agile]

OP, you seem to think that the boiler should be serviced!

All a landlord needs to do is have a gas safety check done.

Similarly, you have to get your car MOTed but nobody forces you to have it serviced!

Tony

 

[CBF]

so on the GS web site under his details it only states what you have put ?
it doesn't state he can work on cookers or boilers ?

if the answer is no then you need to phone gas safe & report him asap

 

[ianmcd]

CBF please read my post in the CC would value your opinion on this one , cheers Ian

 

[Aragorn84]

Agile: I'm not a gas engineer, so i dont know whats expected. But using your vehicular analogy, certifying the boilers safe without opening the cover is surely similar to issuing an MOT without looking underneath the car and inspecting the mechanicals...

Maybe thats not required in this instance, but its hardly a safety check in that case, more like a safety glance...

When we first moved in (3 years ago), the landlord had some electrical work done, and the guy who did it (a different bloke to the recent gas guy) mentioned that he'd done the gas inspection a few months earlier, and discovered that the boiler cover couldnt be removed has it had been boxed in too tightly. Once he hacked the wall out to get the cover off, he discovered that something to do with the backplate on the boiler was totally rusted thru due to bad pointing around the flue and needed to be replaced. He commented on the fact that it hadnt happened overnight and that the previous gas safety checks clearly hadnt been done properly as they couldnt have looked inside the boiler as the cover wouldnt come off...

That suggested to me that removing the cover and internally inspecting the boiler would be a normal part of the safety check. Are you suggesting its not?


The entries i posted above are all it says on the gas safe website. I dont really want to plaster the guys registration number on here, but if anyone would like to see for themselves, i can PM them the registration number.

Cheers
Kevin

 

[FiremanT]

The entries i posted above are all it says on the gas safe website. I dont really want to plaster the guys registration number on here, but if anyone would like to see for themselves, i can PM them the registration number

.

Yes, please, Kevin, I am intrigued

 

[Aragorn84]

He probably conjured them up with a stopwatch and some mathematics

I guess thats possible, using the quantity of gas used against some time, so long as the calorific value of the gas is known. However surely the result is meaningless unless its then compared against a known reference point...

If a 24Kw boiler consumes 35kw of gas, you can probably suspect somethings amiss, similarly if a 24kw boiler consumes 18kw of gas, you can also assume somethings amiss.

Surely if your going to measure gas consumption, and produce a figure, you need to compare it against what the boiler manufacturer states is an acceptable range for the product.