Gel Radiators

[Angelbabes]

I am in a sitation where my heating will be supplied by electric.
I have had storage heaters in my previous home which have worked fine as I overinsulated the loft 14" in total...

I again have overinsulated the loft in my new renovation project and added 4"insulation (internally) to the already 27"thick stone walls
But someone has told me about gel filled radiators that just plug into a normal socket. Would these be a good option...

Any info (real info, not sales info) on the costs and reliability etc would be gratfully received...

Thank-you in advance...

Angelbabes...

 

[chapeau]

I would guess that that the nature of electric heaters is that they are all essentially of the same efficiency, i.e. close to 100%. The cost of your total heat output will be directly proportional to the cost of your electricity and nothing else. If I was doing a renovation and only had electricity to heat the place I'd be considering a heat pump.

 

[JohnD]

They didn't mean oil-filled radiators did they?

If you have no gas supply and are not going to oil or solid fuel, then I suppose you are stuck with electricity. However to heat an entire house this way will work out expensive (electricity is about twice the cost of gas).

Look at Economy 7 or one of the other schemes available for low-price overnight electricity.

If you are doing a major refurb you could put in underfloor heating and warm the concrete floor slab and it will act as a giant storage heater

sadly all storage heating methods are slow to react so there will be days when it is warmer than you want, and days when it is cooler than you expected.

Heatring a whole house with electricity you should not use plug-and-socket heaters. Among other reasons you will probably overload your ring circuit. Run 20A dedicated radials to each room positioon where you expect to need a heater. Large rooms will need more than one. Luckily modern storage heaters are relatively narrow.

 

[ericmark]

I did read years ago about using a substance which changed from solid to liquid at a temperature which was usable. The idea was to use the latent heat of fusion to store the heat.

However it seems the use of water and a large insulated store now seems to be method selected. From what I have seen two firms Glen Hill and Mega Store have cornered the market the latter uses pressurised tank the former open vented seems which system is dependent on lime in water but I am no Plumber.

Anyway idea is heat a load of water with off-peak then circulate only when required which gains on old brick system as the heat from them could never be turned off only down so they heated house when not required.

The latent heat of fusion to store the heat did also use a central tank and I think a heat pump.

However the cost of installation was silly and although the idea was good only places like alternative technology centre could afford to install them. And anything non standard if it fails is going to be harder to get repaired. Its all grand saying we service it but as seen this winter when most needed travel is a problem so you need local firms.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you are doing a major refurb you could put in underfloor heating and warm the concrete floor slab and it will act as a giant storage heater.

So would the walls if she'd put the insulation on the outside...

 

[Chri5]

Or consider a electric boiler and deal with both the HW and CH issues via 1 x box.

 

[Steve]

Or consider a electric boiler

[shudders]

Just hate the thought of a big electric heater ticking away the KWh's on the meter

 

[electronicsuk]

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again, heat pump, as already suggested. It doesn't have to be ground source if you don't have the space. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect such a setup to be 70% cheaper than on-peak electric heating. It wont be cheaper than storage heaters by such a large margin, but there's none of the drawbacks - the heat is there when you need it.

 

[Steve]

heat pumps are expensive to purchase though. depends if the OP wants cheap in the long run, or cheap now.

 

[electronicsuk]

heat pumps are expensive to purchase though. depends if the OP wants cheap in the long run, or cheap now.

Not really - you can get an air-air heat pump with a COP of 3 or more from Fleebay for less than £200, so just multiply that by the number of rooms you need to heat/cool. Not that I'd recommend that method, as you'd have an outside wall crawling with condenser units, but if low capital costs were such a priority...

A more sensible approach would be a multi-split system capable of heating/cooling up to four rooms on a single outdoor condenser, cost approx £2000 exc. installation for a reputable brand, or half that for an unbranded unit off 'tinternet.

As for GSHPs, I'm not sure of the capital costs. In any case, as you rightly say, you would need to weigh it up based on how many years you plan to spend at the property, and the savings you're likely to make.

 

[Steve]

or half that for an unbranded unit off 'tinternet.

But would you buy one of these? By "breezy air ltd of taiwan"? I wouldn't, mainly because I'd be concerned about getting someone to actually install and service it!

GSHP by the specialists will run into £5000+.

Best way to do any heap pump system, IMO, is the tried and tested American way - ducting to each room, forced air. Balance the system with valves, like you would a radiator system, and a central thermostat. In the basement / plant room, then, you fit a single coil for the heating/cooling via a seperate heat pump. Only issue with this is the air return - you need a large return somewhere in the house, preferably the ground floor, which then pulls all the heat down from upstairs.

 

[londonboy]

electronicsuk can the newer ashp actually reach a decent temperature?

Last time my company installed them they only reached 50 degrees, which meant using an immersion to get the tank to 60 and oversized rads.

 

[electronicsuk]

or half that for an unbranded unit off 'tinternet.

But would you buy one of these? By "breezy air ltd of taiwan"? I wouldn't, mainly because I'd be concerned about getting someone to actually install and service it!

Actually, I would, and I bought and installed two of them at my old house. One was used occasionally to cool the office, the other ran 24/7 for the best part of a year before I left, and was used to cool a number of servers. Neither of them ever malfunctioned.

Best way to do any heap pump system, IMO, is the tried and tested American way - ducting to each room, forced air. Balance the system with valves, like you would a radiator system, and a central thermostat. In the basement / plant room, then, you fit a single coil for the heating/cooling via a seperate heat pump. Only issue with this is the air return - you need a large return somewhere in the house, preferably the ground floor, which then pulls all the heat down from upstairs.

I would agree it's certainly the neatest and one of the more efficient methods of using a heat pump, although those systems do also have their downfalls, such as the difficulty in controlling individual room temperatures and draughts.

 

[electronicsuk]

electronicsuk can the newer ashp actually reach a decent temperature?

Last time my company installed them they only reached 50 degrees, which meant using an immersion to get the tank to 60 and oversized rads.

I wasn't referring to use of heat pumps for water heating, rather purely for room heating. If you're using an air/ground to water heat pump with standard rads then the radiators will definitely need to be oversized to account for the low flow temp. We're more used to this now due to widespread use of condensing boilers, anyway. However, air/air heat pumps a-la air conditioning are perfectly capable of heating a room.

Using a standard electric immersion and tank for water isn't going to break the bank.

 

[Steve]

electronicsuk can the newer ashp actually reach a decent temperature?

Last time my company installed them they only reached 50 degrees, which meant using an immersion to get the tank to 60 and oversized rads.

The low temperature is perfect for underfloor heating. But I think most of these systems require an additional immersion heater for the DHW.

We have ASHP in our shops, but they are simple air con units blowing hot air out*. This is the ideal use for them, not radiators. But most people dont want fans blowing in their house.

*In many instances, they share an outdoor cooling plant with the refrigeration system, such that the heat from the fridges is recycled back into the shop via the heat pump air cons. We also get cooling in the summer