Glow-worm Y Plan Help!

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I have been following the Honeywell Y plan diagram to connect my system and it doesn’t seem to work properly. On the programmer (ST699) I slide the Hot water only button to cont. (continuous) nothing happens, boiler doesn’t fire up. Only when I turn the room thermostat the boiler will fire up and even if I slide the Hot water to off position the boiler is still working, to switch it off I need to turn the room stat to minimum position.

I have not tested Central Heating system as I found problem with the Hot water and didn’t want to cause any damage. So I need to isolate this problem before I move on :) I would really appreciate any help, and would love to know how to test with a voltmeter the cylinder stat, room stat so i can illuminate these from being faulty and what readings i should be getting across programmer terminal block and Honeywell 10 way block


Information of Hardware:

Boiler Glow-worm Ultimate 50FF

Cylinder Stat (no manufacturing marking),

Room Stat (no manufacturing marking), very old dial version, and 4 wires connection

Honeywell mid-position valve – v4073

Honeywell Programmer ST699

Honeywell 10 way terminal block


Wiring configuration:

Boiler

From the boiler L, N, E connected to 10 way Honeywell terminal block,

Boiler Live = Connects to Honeywell terminal block 8,
Boiler Neutral =Connects to Honeywell terminal block 2,
Boiler Earth= Connects to Honeywell terminal block 3.

Note: I have a one link across SL and 9 and second link across K1 and K2


Pump

From the pump the 3 wires L, N, E are connected as follow:

Pump Live = Connects to Honeywell terminal block 8{same as boiler live}

Pump Neutral = Connects to Honeywell terminal block 2 {same as boiler neutral}

Pump Earth = Connects to Honeywell terminal block 3 {same as boiler earth}


Programmer ST699

*Inside the programmer I got links across terminal 1-5-8

Programmer terminal L* is connected to Honeywell terminal block 1
Programmer terminal N is connected to Honeywell terminal block 2
Programmer terminal 3 is connected to Honeywell terminal block 4
Programmer terminal 4 not connected
Programmer terminal 5* Links to 1 and 8 inside the programmer terminal
Programmer terminal 6 is connected to Honeywell terminal block 6
Programmer terminal 7 is connected to Honeywell terminal block 7
Programmer terminal 8* Links to 1 and 5 insider the programmer terminal


Honeywell terminal block 10 Way:

Terminal 1 is connected to Live Load on FCU (Spur)

Terminal 2 is connected to Neutral on FCU (spur) + Room Stat blue wire + Mid-Position valve blue wire.

Terminal 3 is connected to Earth on FCU (spur) + Room Stat G/Yellow wire + Mid –Position valve G/yellow

Terminal 4 is connected to Programmer ST699 terminal 3 and Room stat (1) Red wire

Terminal 5 is connected to room stat (3) Yellow wire and also mid-position valve white wire.

Terminal 6 is connected to Programmer ST699 terminal 6 and Cylinder stat (Common) brown wire

Terminal 7 is connected to Programmer ST699 terminal 7 and Cylinder stat (2) G/Yellow wire and mid-position valve Grey wire

Terminal 8 is connected to Boiler Live(which goes back downstairs to the boiler terminal control box marked L) + Pump Live and Cylinder stat (1) Blue wire and mid-position valve Orange wire.

Terminal 9 is Not used

Terminal 10 is Not used

What I found conflicting and really confusing some Y-plan diagrams I read show that the pump Live goes back to the boiler marking P terminal in its control box( someting about over run was mentioned). And boiler has a permanent live feed to L. The SL is connected to mid-position valve orange wire and to cylinder stat terminal (1). Is this method correct?

off question, just for my reference, How do I find out what type of system is installed i.e. A gravity domestic hot water and pumped central heating system or a Fully pumped open vented system. How does one distinguish this. This is what i have fitted :

I have a tank in my loft and the pipes come down to my airing cupboard in the bath room where the cylinder, pump, mid-position valve, programmer ST699 and Honeywell terminal box is fitted and the boiler is fitted downstairs in the kitchen.




Thanks in advance
 
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It would be very time consuming for me to try to follow what you have done from your verbal description ( rather than a circuit diagram ).

An immediate problem seems to be that you have not connected the boiler SL to the control circuit!

But thats probably only one of many incorrect connections.

Even if I had all the diagrams to hand I would expect it to take me about two hours to check everything! Including a coffee break!

For example I have no idea what terminal "9" is for!

Perhaps there is some retired person who has a day to sopend assembling the information and figuring out what you have done wrong?

Tony
 
Can't really be bothered to read through such a long post, but from what little I have read your system is wired up totally wrong for a Y plan.
 
Would help if you explained what you was trying to achieve or do. Convert from gravity to fully pumped? Did boiler ever work?

From your description immediate errors noted:

Boiler needs a PERMANANT live, neutral & earth - fed from terminals 1, 2 & 3 respectivly.

Boiler needs a SWITCHED live fed from orange on motorised valve and DEMAND terminal of hot water stat.

REMOVE link between L & SL as it shorts out controls, wire pump to boiler terminals.

REMOVE link between K1 & K2 as it shorts out overheat stat when used as gravity system - it is a safety device!
 
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K1 K2 link might suggest you have gravity hot water, pumped CH system.

Have gone through your very detailed listing, which seems to make sense. Green yellow from the cylinderstat is a no no as it is a safety wire NOT to be used as a live/ neutral connection.

Have you checked if the boiler fires for a short time only when HW is is selected on the programmer? Remember, for gravity, water will only flow aided by convection currents. If plumbing has been altered, wiring may not be the issue.

If you are happy and confident using a multimeter, connect one lead to neutral connection having selected 250 volt ac range. Select HW on programmer. Terminal with orange wire should be live. This is the terminal that tells the boiler to run via SL connection. The valve does not move during this demand. Boiler is powered up through the cylinderstat. When HW water reaches set temperature, cylinderstat disconnects and boiler goes to standby.
 
Would help if you explained what you was trying to achieve or do. Convert from gravity to fully pumped? Did boiler ever work?

Hunter2k said:
How do I find out what type of system is installed i.e. A gravity domestic hot water and pumped central heating system or a Fully pumped open vented system.

If the OP is asking this question he will hardly be able to answer yours! ;)


Hunter2k

Please describe your system prior to your attempt to convert it to Y-plan, in particular:

1. How many water pipes were connected to the boiler?
2. Was there a pump?
3. Could you have the Central Heating on by itself or did the HW come on when the CH was switched on?
4. Did you make any changes to boiler pipe work when converting to Y-plan, if so what?

A diagram showing the before and after plumbing would be helpful. You can create one using MS paint, save as a jpeg and post to your images folder on this site.
 
I apologise for the long detailed post, i wanted to describe what i have done as much as possible. Diagram i have been following is this


//www.diynot.com/network/Hunter2k/albums/1037/4098


Would help if you explained what you was trying to achieve or do. Convert from gravity to fully pumped? Did boiler ever work?

when I purchased the property, i was told previous owner tried to change the faulty clock to the new programmer timmer ST699 and he never got round to fitting it. wires from the honeywell box were not connected. So i decided to attempt it myself following the y-plan.

Please describe your system prior to your attempt to convert it to Y-plan, in particular:

1. How many water pipes were connected to the boiler? = I can see 2 pipes from the top of the boiler

2. Was there a pump? = yes

3. Could you have the Central Heating on by itself or did the HW come on when the CH was switched on? from what i was told Central Heating and HW came on at the same time and could have HW only

4. Did you make any changes to boiler pipe work when converting to Y-plan, if so what? No i have made no changes to the any of the plumbing
 
After reading your recommendations I have now:

1.removed link from k1 and k2 from boiler control
2.wired the pump into the boiler terminal (P)
3.removed the link across SL and 9.
4.connected SL to the honeywell junction box terminal 8 which connects to orange wire of mid-position valve and Cylinder stat (1)
5.PERMANANT live,Neutral,Earth is connected to boiler now

If you are happy and confident using a multimeter, connect one lead to neutral connection having selected 250 volt ac range. Select HW on programmer. Terminal with orange wire should be live. This is the terminal that tells the boiler to run via SL connection. The valve does not move during this demand. Boiler is powered up through the cylinderstat. When HW water reaches set temperature, cylinderstat disconnects and boiler goes to standby.

When i select HW on programmer nothing happens, there no voltage across orange wire or cylinder stat (1).

Cylinder stat(2) + Grey wire mid-position valve has 240v.

Cylinder stat(C) has no voltage.

If i select programmer HW off i still get 240v across terminal 7 on the honeywell block.

* From the honeywell 10 way terminal block if i swap over wires 6 and 7 comming from the programmer then the boiler fires up and reaches it temp, then switches it off ( i guess its got its own internal thermostat) and my problem is when i select programmer HW off. The boiler will still be working after an hour.The programmer signal is not stopping the boiler to switch off. Could this mean i have a faulty programmer or a cyclinder stat ??

Please look at drawing,I have modifyed it and i have marked each contact with a colour to show what voltage value is across each terminal.

what voltages should i be getting out off the programmer ST699 and do the links look correct ?

Thanks
 
try turning HW and CH off at prog - you should have 240v @ 1 & 7 in wiring centre. Measure from numbered terminal to neutral, and also to earth.
 
try turning HW and CH off at prog - you should have 240v @ 1 & 7 in wiring centre. Measure from numbered terminal to neutral, and also to earth.

HW and CH off at programmer, i get 240v at 1&7 in wiring centre, which i measured from neutral and also to earth but i also get 240v at 4 in the wiring center.
 
are you sure you've got no wire in prog term 4 (double check it, dont just assume because you shouldnt have you wont have)
 
are you sure you've got no wire in prog term 4 (double check it, dont just assume because you shouldnt have you wont have)

sorry m8, misunderstanding, the terminal 4 i am refering to is on the honeywell wire center (10 way block) which has a connection to prog terminal 3 and room stat terminal 1, this gives me the 240v and there is no wire in the prog terminal 4 - Not connected to anything as you rightfully stated.
 
disconnect the room stat wire from term 4 in wiring centre and test again, check both the wiring centre term4 and the disconnected wire.
 
disconnect the room stat wire from term 4 in wiring centre and test again, check both the wiring centre term4 and the disconnected wire.

Disconnected the room stat wire from terminal 4 in wiring centre, 240v is still present, on terminal 4 which traces back to prog terminal 3. Stat wire has 0v
 
Many thanx for all your help lads, the boiler is all singing an dancing now :D
Turns out the programmer ST699 was faulty, changed it for a Randall 4033 which i had lying around in me shed and it works.

Just quick question, what is a good programmer to buy for my system ? need it to have a 7 days settings. i've been looking the Glo-Warm EP200 2 Channel Programmer from plumbworld £25, is this any good ?


Thanx again.
 

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