Going smart but which one?

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I have just moved into a new build and have the current setup.

1x wired thermostat in master bed (1st floor)
1x wired thermostat in hallway (ground floor)
1x 3 channel programmer ESI ES3247b (utility room)

the programmer controls hot water, zone 1, zone 2.

I used to have a tado in my old house but after some research, seems like it is not compatible with my current setup.

I tried to check nest out but seems like they can’t use the live wires from old system as they are low voltage only.

And finally I found Drayton wiser? I believe I’ll need to remove the old thermostat wiring to install this.

Is there a system you would recommend that does not need an electrician to come by and re-wire? I’ve added the wiring the thermostats and programmer has. Thanks in advance!
 

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Tado would be compatible, but you would need the extension kit and an additional wireless thermostat.

You could then use the extension to control HW and one zone wirelessly via the thermostat, then hard wire the other thermostat.

Before all this, check your new build heating system was actually designed properly. What is the flow temperature and boiler size?
 
Tado would be compatible, but you would need the extension kit and an additional wireless thermostat.

You could then use the extension to control HW and one zone wirelessly via the thermostat, then hard wire the other thermostat.

Before all this, check your new build heating system was actually designed properly. What is the flow temperature and boiler size?

That’s weird because when I go to tado and check compatibility it says the extension is not compatible with tado…
 

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Drayton Wiser should be a decent swap, with minimal, if any wiring changes.
 
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That’s weird because when I go to tado and check compatibility it says the extension is not compatible with tado…

That is the user checker not the pro installation tool - which using the hidden menus can set this up to work.

Tado says it's not compatible because for age their extension did not have 3 channels (it has 2 relays). All you would be doing is using a wired thermostat as an additional relay hard wired to that additional zone.

You've been given some extremely cheap controls, check the entire heating design now. What is the flow temperature and size of the boiler?
 
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That is the user checker not the pro installation tool - which using the hidden menus can set this up to work.

Tado says it's not compatible because for age their extension did not have 3 channels (it has 2 relays). All you would be doing is using a wired thermostat as an additional relay hard wired to that additional zone.

You've been given some extremely cheap controls, check the entire heating design now. What is the flow temperature and size of the boiler?

not sure where I can check the size of the boiler but the flow temp i can set it up to maximum 80. Uploaded a picture of it and the cylinder tank for hot water.
 

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Last edited:
I can't see any isolation valve or drain point on the expansion vessel, so it's likely it will never get serviced; this should be addressed.

Also its not clear but Possibly the primary pipework out of the boiler is not of the correct size, this will depend on your property and the heating design if it's important or not - but it is a noticeable detail, as is the admitted tiny price of insulation on the capped secondary return on the hot water cylinder.

24kwh is a pretty massive boiler for a 2022 newbuild, how big is the property (how many floors and bedrooms?) Also how many radiators is it serving?

The issue is these heat only logics can't modulate very low. So it's likely the heat demand for your house most of the year will be well below the minimum this boiler can do.

It's also possible that your flow temperature is too high for this boiler to ever condensate.

You should consider getting this entire setup checked by a pro and look into weather compensation if it isn't already installed (looks like it isn't).
 
I can't see any isolation valve or drain point on the expansion vessel, so it's likely it will never get serviced; this should be addressed.

Also its not clear but Possibly the primary pipework out of the boiler is not of the correct size, this will depend on your property and the heating design if it's important or not - but it is a noticeable detail, as is the admitted tiny price of insulation on the capped secondary return on the hot water cylinder.

24kwh is a pretty massive boiler for a 2022 newbuild, how big is the property (how many floors and bedrooms?) Also how many radiators is it serving?

The issue is these heat only logics can't modulate very low. So it's likely the heat demand for your house most of the year will be well below the minimum this boiler can do.

It's also possible that your flow temperature is too high for this boiler to ever condensate.

You should consider getting this entire setup checked by a pro and look into weather compensation if it isn't already installed (looks like it isn't).

The build is 2 floors 5 bedrooms and I have 6 radiators on ground floor and 8 on 1st floor. Total 14 Radiators.

From the information in previous replies, I guess I need to:
1. Hardwire x1 Tado thermostat
2. Wireless x1 Tado thermostat
3. Tado extension kit to replace the current 3 CH programmer

The only issue now is what to do with the wires.
 
Yes that sounds right.

You could also get it wired in parallel with all existing controls to ensure it works without disrupting your original installation.


The tado install will not be simple, you will either need to have an installer do it, access the pro menus or email tado to set it up how you want. (They typically will do this within 48 hours).
 
I would be going back to what you are aiming for.
So let me talk about "Smart"
1) Ability to remotely turn heating on/off.
2) To have the heating turn on/off automatic as you leave or enter area where home is "Goefencing"
3) Have a timed thermostatic control in each room.
These are not really smart, so to work out when it is going to be warm latter in the day so inhibit heating early in the day would be smart. Not seen anything do that.

However measuring outside temperature or connecting to internet reports is done.

So in the main we are looking for using less energy, so central boiler, but each room independently controlled, the problem is where builders have part done the job, using components which don't lend themselves to being expanded on.

EPH do a thermostat which can control a motorised valve hard wired independent to the boiler also hard wired, the latter using OpenTherm so it modulates boiler but switches the motorised valve, and you set the thermostat as master/slave with up to 10 units.

There is in the main not point in mixing types of motorised valve, and an electronic head on a thermostatic radiator valve (TRV) is clearly a motorised valve. There are exceptions like my home where hard wired motorised valves select main house or flat, but within the main house electronic TRV's in each room.

So in many homes to increase control means to remove some of the control already installed. Other than EPH it seems we can't control the modulation with hard wired motorised valves, so upgrading from hard wired motorised valves to wifi controlled motorised valves can allow the move from on/off control to modulated control.

There is some debate over the advantage of gaining the latent heat from flue gases, the boiler may be designed to gain that energy, but the system often switches boiler on/off so messing up the boilers system used to gain latent heat.

So the big question is why do we have on/off wall thermostats if the boiler is controlled by the return water temperature, well the problem is a TRV can't turn the boiler on, so we put a on/off wall thermostat in a room normally kept cool on the ground floor where there are no outside doors and no alternative heating including sun through the window, don't know your home, but in my house no such room. However it is to automatic turn off the heating on a warm day, and turn it on with a cold day, so maybe it should be outside?

The better option is to have a hub of some type, connected to the TRV heads, so the TRV heads tell the boiler when to run, and most the so called "Smart" wall thermostats do just this, they may also measure the temperature in the room, but they also are triggered by the TRV heads.

However this is all well and good with a hydraulic system, but with a hot air system the air is circulated around the house, so often a single wall thermostat is enough, due to air being circulated, so there are some thermostats which don't connect to TRV heads, Nest, Moes etc. This does not stop them from being used with a hydraulic system, but they are not really best suited for the system, Nest it seems in USA have released temperature sensors so it can monitor multi-rooms, but not released in the UK.

The problem with the fancy system is it is not cheap, so we tend to compromise, fit two or three wifi connected TRV heads linked to main wall thermostat, but most TRV's may be electronic so have a program as to when to heat rooms, but not wifi connected, some eQ-3 for example do have bluetooth so don't need to bend down to manually program, but still not connected to wall thermostat.

So what are your aims, once one knows what you are trying to do, then one can point to possible ways to do it.
 

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