Got the builders in ... and need to make decisions

[bice]

I have got the builders in to build me a side return extension in a four-bedroom terraced house in South London. It means remodelling the kitchen, putting in a shower room and ... sorting out the plumbing.

We have an open vent sealed system with an Ideal Classic LXFF boiler, about 8 years old, a hot water cyclinder in the airing cupboard, a cold water tank in a roof occupying space narrow attic space we cannot use, and a red expansion vessel in the main attic.

The builders immediately suggested a combi boiler as a replacement, but I am very wary of this. I am no plumber but I have read up on hot water systems on sites such as miketheplumber etc.

Our boiler works fine, but certainly is overdue for a service and is not a condensing boiler. So the building inspector may insist I change it if, as I want to do, I move the location.

It may be a good idea to replace it anyway as it scores only 76.2-77.2 on the sedbuk boiler efficiency site, or 'E'.

We also want a hot water cyclinder. We have a copper one, wrapped in an insulating duvet. it works fine, but may be inefficient and time to change it. The builders are suggesting a 200litre one, which sounds over the top for three/four of us.

I think the best course is to revive the feed and expansion tank in the attic, which is all in place, and scrap the sealed, pressurised system that we fitted about 8 years ago.

There are no space saving issues, as the cold water tank is not using usable space. And we want a hot water tank.

What do people reckon: I should ditch the pressurised system or stick with it? Should I keep the Ideal Classic boiler or replace with something like a Borsch Worcester 30 CDi, or a Vaillant Ecotec.

Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

[oph]

IMHO opinion you dont need a 30 CDi conventional for sure! A 24 Ri will surfice and most likley you would prob get away with an 18 Ri. Once upon a time big was beautful as they say.
Avoid a combi unless you have main that can give you in excess of 20l per minute with ANOTHER tap on. If you do want one then go for the floorstanding Worcester Highflow 440 or 550.
Ok from memory the Classic LXFF was the one with a glass front on it and was balanced flue but I may be wrong there.

Not to sure. I used to install Classic FF's like nobodys business as an apprentice and they were bulletproof on the whole.

If you showers with performance but without pumps then go for an unvented cylinder. make sure your installer has the unvented ticket as well as loads DONT. The other guys will have their own opinions for sure so dont just blindly follow my advice

Best of luck

 

[electronicsuk]

I'll let those who do this sort of work day-in day-out answer your specific questions, but I think you're right to question the builders. Are they making these suggestions, or are they coming from a plumber who is under the employment of or being contracted by the builders?

I may be taring them all with the same brush, but builders generally don't have a clue when it comes to plumbing or electrics, and if you're not careful you could be landed with a sub-standard job. It's very unlikely the builders will be gas-safe registered, for example, so should not be touching (certainly not moving) the boiler themselves.

 

[oph]

I'll let those who do this sort of work day-in day-out answer your specific questions, but I think you're right to question the builders. Are they making these suggestions, or are they coming from a plumber who is under the employment of or being contracted by the builders?

I may be taring them all with the same brush, but builders generally don't have a clue when it comes to plumbing or electrics, and if you're not careful you could be landed with a sub-standard job. It's very unlikely the builders will be gas-safe registered, for example, so should not be touching (certainly not moving) the boiler themselves.

I was going to add that but I forgot !

 

[ChrisR]

You're allowed to keep a noncondensing boiler, even if you move it.

If you can leave it where it is, probably best to do so.
Your Classic might last 10 years
A new boiler might last 10 years
You might save, say £150 a year in bills
10 x £150 = about enough for a boiler swap - so there's little to win or lose. You try the sums!

Stay sealed.
One day you may need a new gas pipe to the boiler from the meter - check now before you build over it.

How many bathrooms?
Do you want better shower performance?

 

[bice]

Stay sealed.
One day you may need a new gas pipe to the boiler from the meter - check now before you build over it.

How many bathrooms?
Do you want better shower performance?

Sure about staying sealed? 'mikethe boiler isn't keen. One bathroom, one shower room. Easy enough to avoid using at same time. Not bothered by high pressure showers, but dont want just a trickle.

 

[D_Hailsham]

So the building inspector may insist I change it if, as I want to do, I move the location.

It would be worthwhile phoning the Local Council's Building Control Department and asking. If they say you can move the old boiler, write to them confirming your telephone conversation. That way they cannot later deny that they said it.

It may be a good idea to replace it anyway as it scores only 76.2-77.2 on the sedbuk boiler efficiency site, or 'E'.

As long as you realize that the saving on fuel will not pay for the new boiler before it needs to be replaced.

We also want a hot water cylinder.

Don't blame you. Combi boilers are not suitable for installations with multiple hot water outlets.

The builders are suggesting a 200litre one

See the table in the Albion Water Cylinders Catalogue

I think the best course is to revive the feed and expansion tank in the attic

You can still have a hot water cylinder and a sealed system boiler. You would retain the cold water tank in the loft, but not have a Feed and Expansion tank for the heating.

 

[oph]

You're allowed to keep a noncondensing boiler, even if you move it.

I have a feeling that that isnt right. This subject came up when I did me energy efficiency back in '06 and we were told outright that this wasnt possible.

But having said that ......who police's this anyway?

It dosent seem to be