Grid alert as families face cold weather power cuts.

[nstreet]

I have to admit that there seems to be a huge amount of wasted energy on lighting for business premises. There is a business park near us, which i often walk through at night with the dog. It's mostly office units and every night the car parks are lit so brightly its like daylight, but there are never any cars in the car parks after 18:30 or at all at weekends.

As mentioned previously these lights do seem to get brighter. There is a new car showroom nearby and its lighting is so bright a huge white halo can be seen from miles around. I should think its visible from space. It seems to give off more light than the local football ground on a match evening.

Whats happening at the planning stage to allow such wastage and light pollution? and yet we are being told to use energy efficient lighting in the home.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why don't they introduce emergency laws that Ban closed premises from having lights on. It is a disgrace the amount of

.

'cos the insurance companies say their insurance is void otherwise.

But they wouldn't be able to do that if the law prohibited leaving the lights on.

What else can we get rid of? My pet peeves:

1) Warm air curtains in shops. WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING A F***ING DOOR?

2) Patio heaters. You want to heat the outside? IF IT'S TOO COLD TO BE OUTSIDE, GO INDOORS!

 

[oilman]

Whats happening at the planning stage to allow such wastage and light pollution? and yet we are being told to use energy efficient lighting in the home.

Most people involved in the decisions are dickheads (they must be, confirmed by the decisions). They get their information from the institute of british lighting engineers (I've had arguments with this vested intrest group). I found a report commissioned by the home office which showed extra lighting gave people the PERCEPTION of lower crime and greater safety, there was no actual benefit. When I spoke to these "engineers" they said that was an old report and I should look at "this one" by "so and so". Surprise surprise, it had been commissioned by the institute of lighting engineers.

Just as well we have British American Tobacco, otherwise we micht think smoking is linked to cancer.

 

[Big_Spark]

I don't know why people are banging on about the Ukrainian Gas issue..the UK is largely self-sufficient when it comes to Natural Gas, we import something like 3-5% from Europe..

It is not the UK looking down the barrel of the gun, it is Germany, Austria, Switzerland(Not EU) and to a lesser degree France..

I'll bet though that if Ukraine offered to double the amount they pay then Russia would relent.. Russian tend to ask for the Earth when they would settle for the Moon..

OBTW..someone mentioned streetlight power..the ones I advocated turning off on A Roads and Motorways are usually 250W SON-E fittings..they use an average of 287W of energy each...

For what it's worth, I did a little project the other year and this involved getting information of the amount and cost of street lights in England and wales..

After months of research I managed to compile the figures from various sources..at the time there were 10.2 Million Lamps illuminating public area that were paid for from the public purse (By local Councils, County Councils and the Highways Agency)..The average cost to the public purse of running that Lamp for 12 months was £5728. (I don't remember the pennies).

This cost was Electricity at the price paid at that time..obvioulsy maintenance costs are included and electricity prices have risen since the study was done..

If you do the basic calculation..then the cost of running street lights in the UK cost you an me..£58,425,600,000 or £58.425 BILLION

A Roads and Motorways outside urban areas account for 7.1% of the total lighting, that is £414,821,760. Think what that extra money could do for Doctors surgery's or the NHS or Edcuation..or even give it to the Police for their overstretched budgets..It would make more of an impact on our everyday lives than wasting energy needlessly..

EDIT

I will dig out the paperwork to see how they calculated this figure..

 

[Slogger]

r u sure them figures are right



if its right then wtf r we going to do about it i for one wouldnt mind being in the dark


what would the cost to us be if we where left in the dark ( illegal activities) vs light

 

[oilman]

Since a huge amout of crime is committed in daylight, why do people expect lights at night to stop crime?

 

[joe-90]

Since a huge amout of crime is committed in daylight, why do people expect lights at night to stop crime?

It's the same reason that spotlights are used in the theatre. Do you know anything about anything?



joe

 

[oilman]

Since a huge amout of crime is committed in daylight, why do people expect lights at night to stop crime?

It's the same reason that spotlights are used in the theatre. Do you know anything about anything?

joe

Not as much as the great Joe-90, the great abuser.

 

[Big_Spark]

r u sure them figures are right

Those figures were correct as of September 2003...courtesy of the Home Office and all the nations local authorities...

 

[oilman]

How are the figures calculated?

The running cost of one lamp at say 10p/kWh, if it was 280W for 6000 hours (a bit more tha a year) would be £168.

 

[andy]

This cost was Electricity at the price paid at that time..obvioulsy maintenance costs are not included and electricity prices have risen since the study was done..

depending on council, i can tell you that it costs around £30 for a van to pull up alongside a street light and change either the lamp or the cell. certain other parts are fixed, but often it gets changed to a new light at extra cost

 

[Stoday]

A Roads and Motorways are usually 250W SON-E fittings..they use an average of 287W of energy each...

The average cost to the public purse of running that Lamp for 12 months was £5728.

If you do the basic calculation..

Let's do the calculation.

There are 8,760 hours in the year, 4,380 between sunset and sunrise. Allow for lights on 15mins before sunset and after sunrise then street lighting hours on a photocell would be 4697.5 - say 4700 hours per year.

4700 hours at 287 W totals 1348.9 kWh. At 10p a kWh that totals £134.89 a year - say £135. A lot less that Bog_Spark's £5728.

 

[Big_Spark]

The Figures are from the Government and Councils and is an average for each lamp to RUN over 12 months...

I'll dig out all the paperwork I have locked away and see how they calculated the figure exactly as I don't recall how they did it..

Stoday..don't start with the personal shiite again fella..I am not in the mood for it.

 

[Big_Spark]

This cost was Electricity at the price paid at that time..obvioulsy maintenance costs are included and electricity prices have risen since the study was done..

depending on council, i can tell you that it costs around £30 for a van to pull up alongside a street light and change either the lamp or the cell. certain other parts are fixed, but often it gets changed to a new light at extra cost

£30..give me a break..It would cost a council a LOT more than £30 to do what you state...

At the time of the study, the total replacement cost of a 8m Steel lamp post was a little of £1700, it then cost something like £1000 to have ateam come out and remove the old post and resit the New one..PLUS there is the cost of the cable jointer..they have to disconnect the old post and then rejoint the new one (Although this is not always the case..it depends if the cable is damaged or was concreted in) However a cable Joint Team will be present..and that is a cost of about £250.

Now if we just take replacing the photocell on the top of the post..well there is a cost from the Wholesalers of about £15-£20 for that alone, then you have the costs of running and maintaining the Cherry Picker Van/truck, plus the wages and ancillery costs for the personel..and there will be at least two of them..If you add all these costs together, ignoring materials, then the cost will be in the £60 per hour region as a bare minimum, realistically it will be a lot higher..

So your £30 estimate is well out...

 

[Big_Spark]

Okay, I have dug out the files from my filing cabinet and had a quick squint through them..

Local Authorities and the Government pay (2003 prices) £0.167 pence per kW/hr of electricity for their unmetered usage, which includes such things as Road Illumination Furniture (Street Lighting), Illuminated Road Signage and Traffic Control Systems.

The average of lamp energy consumption in the UK is 365W (This figure based on an average of all fittings in use).

The agrrement that the Local Authorities and the Government have with the suppliers stated that they calculated bills based on the following:

Period 1: May to September @ 10 hours per night and totalled to 150 days
Period 2: October to April @ 14 hours per night and totalled to 215 days

Period 1 = 1500 hours
Period 2 = 3010 hours
Total Hours = 4510 Hours.

Total Power used is 4510 x 365 = 1.64615MW or 1646.1kW

Cost = £274.89

Now factored into this cost is 18% for Illuminated Road Signage = £49.48
Also a further 23% is factored in for Traffic Control Systems = £63.22

Total Cost of electricity per Lamp = £387.59

Further Costs making up the total figure of £5728.61 are:

Lamp Replacement costs = £378.42
Photo-Cell Replacment Costs = £296.11
Time-Clock Replacement Costs = £421.22
Cleaning Costs = £246.39
Head Replacement Costs = £920.01
Post Replacement Costs = £2773.26
Signage Costs = £305.61

Grand Total of £5728.61

The figures are all average costs across the entire country. Cleaning includes the removal of illegal fly posters and grafitti. The maintenance costs also factor in the costs for the general maintenance of Illuminated Signs, however they do not include the cost of maintenance of Traffic Control Systems as they have their own Budget for this. Replacement Costs for lamps are factopred in per unit per year to allow for the fact that many posts will be replaced more frequently that others, and Illuminated Road Signs are opften damaged in accidents and thus require replacement more often than posts.

The point is that if the lights were turned off, then Nationally a LOT of money could be diverted elswhere as there would be no maintenance costs nor running costs.