Ground source systems
- Thread starter David E
- Start date
Modern circuits boards for one, I can't be the only one that has found digital pcbs are failing at an ever increasing rate (and I'm no parts swapper) often after only 18 months of use - entirely due to poor design.
The heating industry is one of the most unethical sectors of manufacturing - partly due to the abysmal salaries the design engineers are paid and the unwillingness of the public to pay the true cost of the products.
Be assured that nothing currently being sold will last for 20 years. Much of it doesn't get through the initial warranty without some design fault coming to light; 5 - 10 years if your lucky.
The heating industry is one of the most unethical sectors of manufacturing - partly due to the abysmal salaries the design engineers are paid and the unwillingness of the public to pay the true cost of the products.
Be assured that nothing currently being sold will last for 20 years. Much of it doesn't get through the initial warranty without some design fault coming to light; 5 - 10 years if your lucky.
Gasguru wrote
Scroll compressors will. If you dont believe me then ask copeland.
No on second thoughts dont as you will think they will only give you a biased opinion.
Go to a refrigeration company instead who have service contract records running back about 25 years.
Not all heat pump systems have pcb,s or elaborate controls.
Some are very basic and more simple than you think.
Scroll compressors will. If you dont believe me then ask copeland.
No on second thoughts dont as you will think they will only give you a biased opinion.
Go to a refrigeration company instead who have service contract records running back about 25 years.
Not all heat pump systems have pcb,s or elaborate controls.
Some are very basic and more simple than you think.
The Internet shows quite a lot if you search for copeland compressor failures! Part of one explains:-
Section 1: Effects of floodback on Scroll compressors.
One of the frequent causes of compressor failures is damage caused by refrigerant floodback.
Read more>
Section 2: Effects of floodback on bushings and bearings.
Liquid refrigerant diluting the oil can cause wear due to insufficient lubrication.
Read more>
Section 3: Effects of floodback on reciprocating compressors.
There are many load bearing moving parts that are affected by lack of lubrication caused by refrigerant floodback.Read more>
Section 4: Superheat.
Before you can determine if the unit is operating with proper superheat, you've got to know what and where to measure both temperature and pressure.
Read more>
Section 5: For more information.
For more information, access our on-line product information through the Detailed Product Information link at the top of the page. The Copeland Compressor Service and Operating Seminar (COSS) and other training courses can also help, go to
http://www.copeland-corp.com/education.
Section 1: Effects of floodback on Scroll compressors.
One of the frequent causes of compressor failures is damage caused by refrigerant floodback.
Read more>
Section 2: Effects of floodback on bushings and bearings.
Liquid refrigerant diluting the oil can cause wear due to insufficient lubrication.
Read more>
Section 3: Effects of floodback on reciprocating compressors.
There are many load bearing moving parts that are affected by lack of lubrication caused by refrigerant floodback.Read more>
Section 4: Superheat.
Before you can determine if the unit is operating with proper superheat, you've got to know what and where to measure both temperature and pressure.
Read more>
Section 5: For more information.
For more information, access our on-line product information through the Detailed Product Information link at the top of the page. The Copeland Compressor Service and Operating Seminar (COSS) and other training courses can also help, go to
http://www.copeland-corp.com/education.
My take on this GSHP technology - and we haven't fitted any yet - is that it is most uncommon to find houses in the UK that are insulated to a standard where their relatively modest output can cover heat losses.
To size a system to heat a property all year round is usually massively expensive, so many of the salesman describe using 'clean emission free' electrical energy to boost the systems in very cold weather.
Of course, electricity is neither clean nor green; and used peak rate, it's also very expensive.
Independent advice tells us that the compressors in the Scandanavian machines can do 20 yrs without the likelihood of breakdown, I do not expect these systems to be unreliable.
It's just a shame that all the blurb on this technology makes so little play on the heatlosses that have to be sorted from the building before you can take advantage. Many buildings in the UK just cannot be insulated to a high enough standard, especially if they are listed.
I am intrigued about the church press release; most churches lose heat at an alarming rate.........
To size a system to heat a property all year round is usually massively expensive, so many of the salesman describe using 'clean emission free' electrical energy to boost the systems in very cold weather.
Of course, electricity is neither clean nor green; and used peak rate, it's also very expensive.
Independent advice tells us that the compressors in the Scandanavian machines can do 20 yrs without the likelihood of breakdown, I do not expect these systems to be unreliable.
It's just a shame that all the blurb on this technology makes so little play on the heatlosses that have to be sorted from the building before you can take advantage. Many buildings in the UK just cannot be insulated to a high enough standard, especially if they are listed.
I am intrigued about the church press release; most churches lose heat at an alarming rate.........
Just to add to my last post, I did investigate bore and ground source for my current property last year. It could not be insulated to a high enough level to use this technology without a significant contribution from the electrical supply.
Of course, if you do insulate your property with triple glazing etc (like the Scandanavians) you will use vastly less energy with a standard boiler.
Well insulated houses cannot have normal ventilation so some form of heat recovery system is usually advisable.
In the end, I followed the middle ground and put in a VHE Archie Kidd boiler and a Villavent Heat Recovery system, so we don't extract much useful heat outside in the winter.
Of course, if you do insulate your property with triple glazing etc (like the Scandanavians) you will use vastly less energy with a standard boiler.
Well insulated houses cannot have normal ventilation so some form of heat recovery system is usually advisable.
In the end, I followed the middle ground and put in a VHE Archie Kidd boiler and a Villavent Heat Recovery system, so we don't extract much useful heat outside in the winter.
Simon, I think that in your second posting and like many others you are rather sidelining the main point.
If anyone chooses to use ground source technology then its quite feasible and much more cost effective to use it to provide a base load rather than ever expecting it to provide whole house heating.
Consider just using it for water preheating with a 5 kW output for example, it will be more efficient during the summer months and will contribute useful preheating all year round.
However, the real issue as Geoff explains so well above, you burn 6 kW of gas to get 2 kW of electricity and then use that electricity to recover the same 6 kW of heat from the ground!
As I see it you might as well just burn the gas in your home and do it for a fraction of the capital cost! They both have the same carbon emission!
The real gain is by improving your insulation!
Tony
If anyone chooses to use ground source technology then its quite feasible and much more cost effective to use it to provide a base load rather than ever expecting it to provide whole house heating.
Consider just using it for water preheating with a 5 kW output for example, it will be more efficient during the summer months and will contribute useful preheating all year round.
However, the real issue as Geoff explains so well above, you burn 6 kW of gas to get 2 kW of electricity and then use that electricity to recover the same 6 kW of heat from the ground!
As I see it you might as well just burn the gas in your home and do it for a fraction of the capital cost! They both have the same carbon emission!
The real gain is by improving your insulation!
Tony
Agile wrote
I am sure it shows quite a lot about combi boiler failures also. O yes I forgot, this forum is full of them.
Go to a reputable refrigeration company and ask how many failures they have had due to floodback in a scroll.
Searching over the internet is something you would expect a layman to perform regarding the reliability of a scroll compressor.
I am sure it shows quite a lot about combi boiler failures also. O yes I forgot, this forum is full of them.
Go to a reputable refrigeration company and ask how many failures they have had due to floodback in a scroll.
Searching over the internet is something you would expect a layman to perform regarding the reliability of a scroll compressor.
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