Guidance re Ashley J804 20amp Maintenance free JB

[jim2490]

Having got fed up with killing my old fashioned 4 poster JB,s due to one squeek too many and busting the plastic case (always on the last post - sods law in effect, I purchased a box of these Ashley J804 20 amps.

No separate info in box re fitting so i just had to make a common sense guess. I had a tinker with one just to assess and observed (what I would call 2 prong caps) pull up to expose a wire under it. I guessed that the wire would be inserted with the cap off and the cap would then be pressed down and home to secure the wire in addition to the mighty grip already placed on the inserted wire.

Have since seen another post make reference to the press down cap in which it was used to actually press down firmly to RELEASE the cable.

Can someone please advise on the correct fitting of these (new to me) jb,s and tell me if the press down caps should remain in situ when the cable core is inserted, and are these really designed to be able to withdraw a core by pressing down on the cap.

I might add that on my experimental 1st one I inserted a core and just could not pull it back out even using brute force.

Help appreciated, thank you.
Jim.

 

[333rocky333]

Genarally you dont need to touch what you call the cap
That is the realease function
You either just push in the solid wire or alternatively push down that cap insert the wire then release.
Either way the cable once done should not pull out.
Pushing down that cap will then allow the cable to pull out
The cap should never be pulled out

 

[17thman]

Is a steel conduit installation relying on the conduit as a cpc, with screwed connections forming the cpc path a contravention of the regs if those conduit screwed connections are plastered in or hidden?

 

[jim2490]

Genarally you dont need to touch what you call the cap
That is the realease function
You either just push in the solid wire or alternatively push down that cap insert the wire then release.
Either way the cable once done should not pull out.
Pushing down that cap will then allow the cable to pull out
The cap should never be pulled out

Thanks for the very useful info, and especially the bit about pressing the cap down to ALLOW the cable in.
Have done 2 so far and just pushed the cable home against resistance with the aid of a pair of pointed pliers, and I confess, had all caps removed to observe the cable to be in place. I will adhere to your sound advice for the next one.
I now have the answer to another question as a bonus. That being "how the devil would you get a very light flex core in" - Press the cap down to enter, or otherwise impossible.
Sorted and thanks again.
Jim.

 

[333rocky333]

For flex thats where you need to manually push down your so called "cap" first, also note the stripping lengths to ensure the conducters project inside enough.
Some of this information, stripping length and min/max diameters I think is embossed on the inside of the lid.

You will also note small 1/2 milimeter holes on the top of the connecter blocks these are to enable test probes for testing voltage etc if needbe.

I usually push the "caps" down to open the entry using a screwdriver in the " +" that is on top of the terminals, though take caution not to slip out and injure yourself

 

[jim2490]

For flex thats where you need to manually push down your so called "cap" first, also note the stripping lengths to ensure the conducters project inside enough.
Some of this information, stripping length and min/max diameters I think is embossed on the inside of the lid.

You will also note small 1/2 milimeter holes on the top of the connecter blocks these are to enable test probes for testing voltage etc if needbe.

I usually push the "caps" down to open the entry using a screwdriver in the " +" that is on top of the terminals, though take caution not to slip out and injure yourself

Good sound advice. I did think it would require something a little more stronger than a finger to get these little beggers right down. Yes I will take care with the screwdriver, but knowing my luck i will probably kill one or two of these JB,s before I get my eye in as i always have to give it just an extra tweek -oops
A bit of advice for other new users - if you do use pliers to push cable in I would wrap some tape round the jaws to protect the exposed cable from sods law damage.
Thanks again man - sound advice and much appreciated.
Jim.
P.S. Correction to my OP - these caps have 3 prongs and not 2 as stated.

 

[jim2490]

Genarally you dont need to touch what you call the cap
That is the realease function
You either just push in the solid wire or alternatively push down that cap insert the wire then release.
Either way the cable once done should not pull out.
Pushing down that cap will then allow the cable to pull out
The cap should never be pulled out

Hi, I have an interesting update on this subject matter which you may not be aware. I purchased a second batch of these JB,s and to my surprise this batch has a leaflet inside each unit and I will quote verbatim the info therein:-
Quote "Hager Instruction leaflet J803 & J804. For conformity with MF requirements during installation, the following applies:
Rigid (solid or stranded) and ferruled conductors are to be pushed directly into the clamping unit without operation of the pushbutton. For flexible conductors, connect only one non-ferruled flexible conductor and insert using the pushbutton before rigid (solid or stranded) are subsequently pushed directly in their clamping unit without operation of the pushbutton" unquote.

I phoned their helpline 0870-607-6677 and asked why there is now a leaflet with the product and was there any specific reason for giving instruction to NOT press the button when inserting and was this a safety issue or was there something special about the mechanism that required this to be the case etc.

The customer service chap was NOT aware of the leaflet or the reason for the directive and said he was as curious as I was and would investigate. He added that he ALWAYS presses the buttons to insert and can see no reason for the directive to push fit them. I left it at that.

I was concerned as I had just fitted a batch of these by pressing all the caps for an easy insertion and NOT as now specifically directed by Hager.

I would be interested if you or any other member knows the answer. It may not matter one way or the other or it just MIGHT MATTER If Hager don't know, well what can I say......

Regards, Jim.

 

[securespark]

Is a steel conduit installation relying on the conduit as a cpc, with screwed connections forming the cpc path a contravention of the regs if those conduit screwed connections are plastered in or hidden?

You could say the same for those flush steel boxes designed to accept MICCS pots that have screws securing the pots to the boxes which are then plastered in.

 

[333rocky333]

I would be interested if you or any other member knows the answer.

Regards, Jim.

I personally dont know and yet to see instructions aside whats embossed on the product

As long as the wires are stripped long and feel secure cant see it matters regarding how the solid cables are inserted, i would think the spring pressure would be constant regardless of the mechanism being used

 

[Monkeh]

They're just trying to ensure cables don't slip out when you press the button. Pushing a solid conductor in will only raise a small section of the contact bar, but pushing the button will raise the entire bar and allow the other cable to move.

 

[jim2490]

They're just trying to ensure cables don't slip out when you press the button. Pushing a solid conductor in will only raise a small section of the contact bar, but pushing the button will raise the entire bar and allow the other cable to move.

Yep, seems logical.
I would think they would be more concerned with the possibility of the flexible cable popping back out as in my limited current experience, once the solid core is in, by whatever means, they do not show a desire to escape if the cable strap has been tightened and cable pressed down into final position.
I will phone them again when I think about it to see if their service man has done his investigation and come up with a definitive answer to this query which is just a bit of a niggle in my mind.
Regards, Jim.

 

[bernardgreen]

The use of maintainance free JB in a chimney has be raised in another thread. It raises for me the question of reliability of these when the atmosphere may have corrosive contents. Are the connections in an MF JB gas tight and immune from corrosion ?

Gas tight in that oxygen and other corrosive gases cannot enter the contact area and by corrosion reduce that area.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Never pushed the button on any cable greater than 1.5mm². Usually glides in nicely. 1mm² can be a bit bendy at times and as for multi strand definitely need to insert and then clamp down on it (release button). As has been stated elsewhere take note of the stripping lengths as embossed in the lid.

 

[jim2490]

The use of maintainance free JB in a chimney has be raised in another thread. It raises for me the question of reliability of these when the atmosphere may have corrosive contents. Are the connections in an MF JB gas tight and immune from corrosion ?

Gas tight in that oxygen and other corrosive gases cannot enter the contact area and by corrosion reduce that area.

Bernard, at first I thought is he having a laugh or what - fitting a jb in a chimney - this must have been one crazy circuit

Seriously, please don't give me another niggle to worry about as I was just getting to really love these JB,s for ease of fitting etc., etc.
I take your point about about ingress of pollution or whatever over time, but the same can be said about conventional JB,s. To give an example, I had a box of 20amp round brown 4 posters (boxed) and stored over a long period, first in the loft, then moved to garage, and finally into my shed. When I came to use them the terminals were covered in nasty white powder, not easily removed. I binned them. Yet another reason why I hate conventional 4 posters.

I could have asked on here how to clean them up, but I thought sod it, I have had enough of this type - weak plastic prone to breaking, threads strip, cable works loose over time, cramped confined space for cables, and now corrosion without even been used.

Regards, Jim.

 

[bernardgreen]

I take your point about about ingress of pollution or whatever over time, but the same can be said about conventional JB,s~~~~~ ~~~~~. and now corrosion without even been used.

Which is why I would never fit a junction box anywhere that meant it could not be accessed, and that includes maintainance free ones.