Gutter Clearing

[pilsbury]

There was no goading and no bashing. Tradesmans choice yes, but the homeowner is now aware of what is right and what is wrong in 2017.

So have all homeowners somehow become magically aware of procedures and processes for all trades and works in the last 5 months?

Poor Mrs Miggins had better train as gas safe, part P, read up on HSAW before she has anything done to her property just in case the workman is a bit sloppy in his personal safety. She is responsible now....

 

[Bosswhite]

So have all homeowners somehow become magically aware of procedures and processes for all trades and works in the last 5 months?

Poor Mrs Miggins had better train as gas safe, part P, read up on HSAW before she has anything done to her property just in case the workman is a bit sloppy in his personal safety. She is responsible now....

Yes, she could/ would bear some of the responsibility if she knowingly employed someone that is not qualified or has the right equipment to carry out the work and there was a major accident.
As a Householder one has the responsibility of ensuring that anyone entering the property will come to no harm, due to something that could be foreseen.

 

[pilsbury]

Qualified for what? Cleaning gutters? I bet most people in the U.K. have no idea of qualifications required for any task or what proper equipment is required.

If something on the property hurts the tradesman that the householder should have maintained eg whilst cleaning the gutters his ladder fell through the faulty manhole cover, then yes, it could be the home owner's fault. But the tradesman cutting H&S corners - that's his problem.

 

[Bosswhite]

There was an incident in this area a few years ago where a self employed " Tradesman" was employed to replace a window pane on a property it was a second storey window ( Above Gutter Level) whilst on the unsecured ladder ( it was argued that a Scaffolding platform should have been used) a gust of wind blew it over and the workman was killed, the owner of the property was charged by H & S for manslaughter

As the property was derelict, and unoccupied the Owner argued that there was no one to supervise the workman against taking a "short cut" using the ladder and the Owner had employed the workman in good faith because he was established and had many years experience and should have been aware of the Working at Height H & S Requirements, The charges were dropped.

 

[Nige F]

I borrowed a small wooden stepladder once- fell off the thing - 2 feet above ground It was full of woodworm. Who was to blame? Me, the householder(stepladder owner) or the worms.

 

[Ian H]

I borrowed a small wooden stepladder once- fell off the thing - 2 feet above ground It was full of woodworm. Who was to blame? Me, the householder(stepladder owner) or the worms.

Mrs Miggins, the old bag!!!

 

[pilsbury]

But old Mrs Miggins does make a nice cuppa....

Nige - In your specific case (not that I agree with what I'm about to say) it would be the owner of the ladder who is to blame. They are providing you with access that is not fit for purpose. Had you have killed yourself from your mighty 2' fall they'd have got shafted. But my thoughts are if you were doing a paid job, why did you not have the correct tools. In addition, you were perfectly able to inspect/test the ladder before you used it. All hypothetically speaking.

Bosswhite - I'm glad the charges were dropped. Shame for the poor sod who copped it, but he should have known better. I've done some stupid stuff in my time and would only have myself to blame if I injured myself. The fact that this was an unoccupied property so therefore no supervision was there is irrelevant in my book. Say I got that bloke to change my window pane. I don't tell him how to do his job, just pay him to do it. My house is occupied but I'm at work. Am I liable for his safety? What about if I'm at home? Do I have to watch the workman's every move? What if I need to pick the kids up? Tell him to stop work until I return in half hour?

This supervising workmen, checking up on there methods of work, questioning their every move is utter b0llocks. I'd bet half the pros on here would walk off site if you had that nagging old bag Mrs Miggins asking if you'd done your weekly ladder check, where are your trade qualifications, where is your fall arrest device, where is your lashing, how are you going to secure it, where is the other person to act as a safety officer before he scoops leaves out of the gutter. Sounds just like that old git from Harry Enfield.....You don't wanna do it like that!

Not for a minute am I promoting unsafe practice, but I am calling foul on having to supervise every trade you ever ask to do anything and know all the safety practices to see if they adhere.

 

[Nige F]

Pilsbury, you are correct. Didn't see the wormholes due to a cursory inspection. A lesson learned there. Luckily I just felt foolish laying on the ground.

 

[catlad]

People who fall of ladders are morons in the wrong occupation.

 

[Al Growler]

I thought this was worth an update.

The chap who I selected to clean my gutters, arrived on the dot, and he brought his nephew with him. You can usually tell after the first couple of sentences with someone whether you have made the right choice and it became quickly obvious that I had. He looked sharp with a shirt with his company name on, and he had a nice clean van with his company name on the side. I started off by making the two of them a really nice cup of tea, after which he climbed his ladder and immediately identified the blockage in the V bend that leads to the down pipe.

He unblocked it and cleaned out all of the crap in the front and back guttering. He also had one of those purified water tanks in his van and he cleaned all my windows, frames and sills without me asking. Took him around 45 mins for the lot. He had quoted me £50 for the guttering job, and that is all he wanted to take, but I shot him £80 because it was well worth that imo.

I also asked him for 30 of his business cards which I distributed around my area. I have since emailed him to set up a contract for his to clean my windows every 8 weeks. all in all a very satisfactory experience and conclusion for both parties.

I think that there is a moral here, and that is don't try and rip customers off, treat them reasonably, do a good job, and it will be worth it the long run for customers and businessmen.

Furthermore, I hope that some of those who came onto this thread calling me a cheapskate and generally taking the p*ss, and telling me what my responsibilities were, will now review their position, but I'm not really bothered either way.

 

[HERTS P&D]

I'm glad you made them 'the two of them a really nice cup of tea', we really hate horrible tea.

Andy