Gutter Clearing

[datarebal]

nobody is goading anyone.. you have been given some first class advice and pointers. you do have a duty of care to ensure workers on your property carry it out in a safe manor.
Ignorance is no defense
Have a good day.

 

[Al Growler]

OK, I'll play along for a bit.

Man puts ladder up against front of house. He climbs ladder with bucket and trowel and clears out guttering.
He then goes round the back, puts ladder against back of house, climbs ladder with bucket and trowel and clears out guttering.

He comes down ladder, probably after around 30-45 mins, I give him fifty quid and off he happily goes to his next job.

Or he stands on ground with long pole and flushes out guttering, which takes even less time

So

1, You say I have a duty to care for workers on my property. What exactly do you want me to do, hold the ladder? Quite happy with that
2. Someone on here said it's a half day job for two people probably worth about £150. If that is not taking it what is?
3. Most people these days who do jobs like this are on their jack to keep costs down, so what should my gutter man do, hire temporary staff, and if so what would their role be?

All I did was open a thread on here and ask if anyone thought £80 was a reasonable quote. What I have received since then, is quite frankly a load of what is sitting in my gutters.

 

[datarebal]

hold ladder, make tea, carry out cpr, call ambulance - its against the law not to have the ladder footed at very least. you are now aware of this. enjoy your thirty quid

 

[Burnerman]

Seriously.....
How does a higher quote make a safer job? I mean, the quote could be £2000 and he could still slide off the roof.
If people work for me on my property, I would expect them to have all of the risk assessments done.....or doesn't it work like that?
John

 

[Al Growler]

hold ladder, make tea, carry out cpr, call ambulance - its against the law not to have the ladder footed at very least. you are now aware of this. enjoy your thirty quid

I think that proves my point, it's a load of cropspray. Moreover, the £30 is irrelevant, it's all about paying a fair price for a decent job. Clearing a bit of crap out of a gutter hardly needs a City & Guilds, but kudos to anyone who climbs up ladders and on roofs. I wouldn't do it.

 

[datarebal]

my comments were not about the cost but more about jack on the ladder alone..and no it does not work like that.

 

[Burnerman]

OK, fair enough.....here's my scenario.
I wanted a chimney lined on my holiday gaff - its 50 miles away. A recommended guy meets me on site, gives me a quote that I accepted and said he would start the week after.
I said I wouldn't be there until the weekend after that. As far as I know, he had a 'marra' with him and when I returned the job was done. I paid him immediately and he got a bonus too - not that bit was relevant.
Do you mean I should have been there when the work was being carried out?
John

 

[Bosswhite]

As a person/householder taking on a self employed work person the requirements are that the self employed person should have the right equipment/knowledge to undertake the job, if the work person improvises using sub standard equipment and has an accident then the Householder can be deemed as an employer and be liable.
There are no H & S regulations that state a ladder MUST footed at all times and that footing a ladder is a last resort and should be avoided. Other safety measures are recommended

 

[Burnerman]

So if he cuts health and safety corners and gets hurt, I could still be liable? Fair enough if I supplied him with a faulty ladder or whatever but it seems a little crazy - he's the 'expert' at the end of the day and should provide what he needs to do the job and keep himself safe.
Either way, this has no relevance to the price of the job.
John

 

[datarebal]

Who said footing was a last resort? There are indeed strict regulations requiring the ladder to be footed and preferably tied where possible, "works should be minutes
and not hours" from the horses mouth..
Google some more

HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK ETC. ACT 1974

 

[Bosswhite]

Who said footing was a last resort? There are indeed strict regulations requiring the ladder to be footed and preferably tied where possible, "works should be minutes
and not hours" from the horses mouth..
Google some more

HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK ETC. ACT 1974

Page 5. Footing a ladder is a last resort and should be avoided.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg455.pdf

 

[pilsbury]

So let me get this straight as I'm finding it hard to believe.....

If you pay for a person to clean your gutters and he falls off his ladder, you, the householder are responsible? Even if the clown was on his own, using a rotten wooden ladder? I would have thought he is responsible for his health and safety. In this very simple instance perhaps it could be expected that old Mrs Miggins could have suspected the ladder should have been footed or lashed off and stopped him before he started - maybe inspected his equipment for safety....... but she is frail, has difficulty walking and has poor sight so couldn't go outside and check on his working practices....... shame on her.

Second instance - again poor old Mrs Miggins, gets someone in to redo her flat roof. The roofer has a dodgy propane cylinder and torch and sets himself on fire. Surely the old dear should have checked his equipment and been up on the roof watching him as a responsible employer to check on his harness and work restraint.

This sounds like a large company having a duty of care to contractors - not a homeowner having no idea on how a job should or shouldn't be done paying for someone to do it for them.

 

[JohnD]

Mrs Miggins is not an employer in those examples.

 

[pilsbury]

Mrs Miggins is not an employer in those examples.

My point exactly - so why is OP getting bashed on his H&S responsibilities for the chap about to clean his gutters?

Lone working, rotten ladder, stilts, spiderman..... tradesman's choice, not the homeowner.

 

[datarebal]

There was no goading and no bashing. Tradesmans choice yes, but the homeowner is now aware of what is right and what is wrong in 2017.