Hard Wood Windows and Grumpy Dave

[Davesomerset]

OK - I am typing this up as OH is biting six inch nails in half.

4 x new Hard Wood windows installed four years ago by ourselves. We used Farrow & Ball Exterior Eggshell. Now a year or so down the line some of it has started to come off. When asking around we were told the wood is oily and although all surface prepared correctly, etc - that F & B will not last. (I love the colour)

Now - OH - does not like painting - and - he has had a new hardwood window made to replace another old one.

So - I go into paint shop and say I like my green paint but I believe you do not sell F & B because of complaints so what would you recommend.

I come out with Johnsone's Acrylic Satin - mixed to match F & B.

Now - OH - used -

1. Rustins Wood Primer - Aluminium.
2. All Purpose Primer (Here is the problem we think as it is oil based)
3. Johnsones' Acrylic Satin - but it is not adhereing properly.

Is it possible to 'save the day' and give me a less stressful life?

I did wonder if it was possible to get the 'old fashioned gloss' mixed to match and then OH would feel like it was 'the old days'.

He used to be a HGV mechanic so painting isn't a favourite task.

Any help would be gratefully received.

 

[JohnD]

was it rubbed down to bare wood before applying the Aluminium primer?

when you say the paint is coming off, do you mean back to the wood, or back to the undercoat or to the primer?

why did you use a primer followed by a primer instead of a primer followed by an undercoat?

Oil paints, especially gloss, are generally more hard wearing than water paints. You can get them mixed to an almost infinite variety of colours, e.g. at a Dulux Decorator Centre.

 

[dcdec]

Its best to stick with a single medium ie all oil based or all water based. You have to apply the aluminium primer which is alkyd (oil) so then go with an undercoat rather than a GP primer then a top coat or two. If i was you i would coat with a single manufacturers system ie all Dulux trade weather shield or all Johnstones etc.
For me sikkens xd is the best but its gloss.

Many will say there is no need to undercoat satin, thats true but on new timber it improves the paint film build.

Note that different mediums have varying tolerances to expansion and general elasticity, they need to 'move' together. Mixing mediums is always likely to cause flaking and cracking.

Eggshell is generally not the best choice for exteriors for longevity and F&B WB exterior has a poor rep, high build oil based gloss is the best in my opinion.

Watch your drying times too, exterior OB paints need long drying times, re-coating before ready will cause wrinkling and shrivelling. Plus the fact you shouldn't really be painting exteriors at this time of year, you may fall in the recommended temps while applying but once the temperature drops it will ****** drying and damage the paint film

 

[opps]

whilst I respect DCDEC's advice i would not recommend Dulux Trade weathershield since the 2010 VOC changes. I had used it for years and had been very happy with it but post 2010 it has become absolute crap.

Jobs that i would previously have expected to last for at least 7 years have been failing within months of application.

The old DT Weathershield UC was so good that it could be left with out a gloss for months or years (i stilll have UC only plywood at home that i kept meaning to gloss but is still OK after 6 years, admittedly it is dull but sound never the less). On my last job it started to fail within days of application, as soon as it rained, which was most of the summer.

I have not changed my preparation regime, the paint has however changed so much so that it has gone from being a product that i recommended and used from 1985 to 2010' to one that i now hate.

The undercoat no longer has colour obliterating qualities and the gloss if applied slightly generously ripples, even on horizontal surfaces. i have seen that happen with glosses but not with one that i have personally applied in the last 20 whatever years.

Unfortunately I cannot recommend a better exterior OB product, as I am stil looking for one

 

[dcdec]

Opps have you used the sikkens XD? For me its first choice for exteriors. It is pricey and slow drying (as all post2010 seem to be) but application, longevity and application are pretty pleasing. Have a look on my profile there's a picture of a victorian front door i did in it last summer.

I get your point about the weathershield, i've heard about pigment separating in it as well. Just mentioned the weather shield as an 'everything under one roof' option, plus there is always a good defence against dulux (or any other producer) for failure if their paint is used from top to bottom, i do use it occasionally, but to be honest i hope to do less and less exterior work simply because we don't seem to get a summer condusive to applying paint and its made worse with the slower than ever drying times.

The other company thats always worth looking at for exterior gear is be-dec, the barn paint is excellent. The only problem i found with it was ropiness (its WB'd), but its well worth considering on gable ends and higher soffits and fascias where finish isn't as important as protection. I think they're a company to keep an eye on for further developments.

 

[Davesomerset]

Thank you all so much - I am printing your replies off for OH to read. He is back indoors from his shed (& window).

Really grateful for all this input.

 

[Davesomerset]

OK - another morning and back onto the 'what do we do now?'. By the way the whole brand new window is being painted in OH's workshop (no heating) but window not in situ. We still take on board when is best time of year to paint, etc.

Now thinking about what is said regarding Dulux having bad reviews, etc I have just googled Sikkens Rubbol XD Gloss. I see that it could be possible to get own colour mixed - if I am right? So do you think I could put in F & B's number e.g. 234 for Vert DE Terre that could be the answer. So with our oil based primer we put on a gloss finish, finishing not matching front of cottage, but could Sikkens be a better a better bet given our situation?

Your thoughts appreciated.

 

[opps]

Getting a colour match shouldn't be a problem but you might need to take a sample card for them to scan.

Painting OB in the workshop will be fine. It is the WBs that fail to cure when the temperature drops to 5 degrees or so.

The otherhalf (Dave?) could add some terebene to the paint to speed the curing, it is an oxidising agent. I use a lot of it Post 2010 but I know that some people don't like it, not sure why though.

You won't notice any difference whilst painting but the finish won't be tacky the next day.

 

[opps]

Thanks for the tip dcdec, I will try their paint on the cursed ealing job.

I agree re exterior jobs. I only did the last one because I wanted the lucrative interiors of the windows.

 

[Davesomerset]

Thanks and how would he know how much terebene to use is the instructions on the 'bottle' if he wanted to use it?

I think this could be our best bet though given the current state of affairs.

 

[JohnD]

I'm very much in favour of painting the windows in the workshop prior to fitting, it enables you to do the backs and edges and to dry in good conditions. There might be sone scratches or chips during fitting, but that can easily be touched up.

The aluminium primer on external hardwood I find does give the best protection. I don't do enough painting now to be up to date with the effects of formula changes and am a bit sad at what I hear.

Luckily for me my house has no external painted softwood joinery, it's all oiled or stained hardwood.

 

[opps]

Thanks and how would he know how much terebene to use is the instructions on the 'bottle' if he wanted to use it?

I think this could be our best bet though given the current state of affairs.

Decant a suitable amount of paint to a seperate container or tray first. Other wise a skin may form in the tin over time.

It does have instructions on the bottle but I pour about 5%, probably more than I need but the product doesn't cost much and I haven't experienced any problems with adding too much.

I had never used it prior to 2010, now I have to use it and products that slow down the very early stages of curing/evaporation to help the paint flow (both on hot and cold days, the latter makes the paint thicken, the former causes the paint to lose its wet edge too quickly)