Hardwired Smoke Detectors

[rizsher]

Looking at putting my house on rent; the letting agent informed me that properties on more than one floor require "Hardwired smoke detectors (interlinked)" as part of UK/Scottish regs.



My understanding is, to meet he letting regs, the detectors can be battery operated, but the two should be hard wired linked such that if one goes off on one floor, the other gets a signal through the hard wire and alarms the other floor.

Have tried Screwfix, B&Q etc and can't really find any things, they all seem to sell standard battery operated single detectors. Would appreciate any suggestions/links for a suitable product.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

http://www.qvsdirect.com/_search.php?page=1&q=smoke+detectors
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...ke+detectors&gclid=CKnm_avrsKoCFUFP4QodvwpF-A

 

[EFLImpudence]

Not sure the instructions you have been given are correct - have a read.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/FireSafety.pdf

Also, not an expert, but I don't think you can link alarms unless they are mains powered. Although you may be able to get 'wireless' ones.

 

[JohnW2]

Also, not an expert, but I don't think you can link alarms unless they are mains powered. Although you may be able to get 'wireless' ones.

One can certainly get linkable battery-only ones - they seem to be part of the range offered by most manufacturers. However, I don't know whether or not they are acceptable for the purpose in question.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[oasistechnical]

BS5839 part 6

domestic smoke / heat detectors
for rental accommodation the basics are;

smoke detector to first floor landing
smoke detector to ground floor hallway
heat detector to kitchen area

interlinked mains fed with battery back up (lithium of PP3 (volt)

supplied via a local lighting supply or preferably from its own MCB in DB

test records must also be held by landlord/maintenance company, this is only for 2 story (up and down) only any more floors you will have to have a LD2 system fitted in accordance with BS5839 and also have emergency lighting as well)

hope this helps you

and yes you can have Radio based units fed from the lighting supply to each area, made by AICO, see local wholesaler not B&Q or shed suppliers.

Oasis

intruder and fire alarm engineer

PS
talk to the local authority as well, they are very helpful

 

[Alarm]

Wot he said really.

Bastid we missed eachother @ IFSEC, or was you hiding

 

[TheGayOwl]

Hi,

Around 60% of my work comes via my wife's family business (estate/letting agents). As I understand it domestic rental props are not legally bound to have mains powered smokes but can suffice with battery ones. Mains would be obviously better.

Following on from OasisTech helpful post I usually fit Aico when I am summoned to do so. First time I installed them I thought I would have to hire/buy a soundmeter (cant recall proper name), but read through the manufacturers instructions and it said that a 'walk' test to ensure they were functioning (interlinked) as necessary was sufficient. ie no need to fill out 5839 sheets. THIS may not be the case now though.

Disagree with Oasis on supplying smokes from own cct though. Should be supplied from a cct where it would be noticeably apparent if it tripped IMO. This is what Building Regs recommend. Oasis, do you install an alarm that triggers when mains power is lost?

Finally, the wireless radiolink bases are blQQdy expensive

 

[rizsher]

Thanks guys for all the info - how much would a pair of AICO detectors cost, and how easy/difficult would they be to fit?.

As I said, my understanding was, the hard-wired bit refers to a hard-wire connection b/w two detectors whcih ensures the other gets trigerred - they could be battery powered, though, mains powered with battery backup would be even more reliable.

 

[TheGayOwl]

Sorry went a bit off topic!

Not aware of a requirement for interlink between battery only smokes. If that was the case the upheaval in installing a physical (cable) interlink would likely make it sensible to install mains powered ones at the same time I think. Seems daft-ish to install a hard wired interlink but then not use mains smokes if you get my jist.

Wireless ones possibly, but they can cost a lot.

Wiring wise you run T&E from lighting point to first smoke and then 3core&CPC to each smoke/heat as a radial cct.

Dont forget to site the alarms 300mm(?) from lighting points and also not tucked away near walls/corners....see manufacturers guidelines.

Also, with Aico when you test the interlink keep the button pressed down for a few seconds as the other alarms do not trigger straight away....which I discovered after wasting an hour double checking terminals etc after they seemingly failed to trigger when first tried

The smokes are around £20, the heat alarms (for kitchens and garages) around £30.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alarm]

Hi,

Around 60% of my work comes via my wife's family business (estate/letting agents). As I understand it domestic rental props are not legally bound to have mains powered smokes but can suffice with battery ones. Mains would be obviously better.

Following on from OasisTech helpful post I usually fit Aico when I am summoned to do so. First time I installed them I thought I would have to hire/buy a soundmeter (cant recall proper name), but read through the manufacturers instructions and it said that a 'walk' test to ensure they were functioning (interlinked) as necessary was sufficient. ie no need to fill out 5839 sheets. THIS may not be the case now though.

Disagree with Oasis on supplying smokes from own cct though. Should be supplied from a cct where it would be noticeably apparent if it tripped IMO. This is what Building Regs recommend. Oasis, do you install an alarm that triggers when mains power is lost?

Finally, the wireless radiolink bases are blQQdy expensive

It depends on the RA what is needed, so could need anything including Aico or a propper fire detection system.
Its called a DB meter, to check sound levels at various points in the building. Ambient noise to bed head is one major point.
A dedicated life protection system should be fed seperatly.

You know nothing about or any other detection if you think a professional system does not have batery back up.

 

[JohnW2]

Also, with Aico when you test the interlink keep the button pressed down for a few seconds as the other alarms do not trigger straight away....which I discovered after wasting an hour double checking terminals etc after they seemingly failed to trigger when first tried

I definitely second that. In my case, I think it was a lot longer than an hour, plus the purchase of a 'replacement' unit when I initially 'gave up'. I dare say that if I had read the instructions carefully enough, they would have put me right - but who reads the important parts of instructions?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[oasistechnical]

under law rental properties HAVE to have a minimum fire detection system fitted.

it my just require stand alone interlinked smoke detectors or it may require an all singing and dancing full system;

we always fit as required by the local authority, if they have not requested it we will fit to either part 6 of higher depending upon the property in question.

also we ALWAYS feed our detection circuit from its own MCB, if you use 9v battery backed units we have found that if the power is lost to many times, (if fed from lighting circuit) the batteries do not last long.

Oasis
always check with your local authority as to what is required, or chat to your local fire officer!
and don't forget you are required to have a fire risk assessment on all properties as well!
that lovely set of words called `duty of care` comes to mind!!!

hay. Alarm
i was there, but most probably when you were not!!!
and the pipes are V & H shortshots!
real loud, real good!!

 

[BigJon]

Screwfix do them here :-

http://www.screwfix.com/p/dicon-ionisation-alarm-with-9v-battery-backup/81969

I've often used these when smokies are required.

 

[TheGayOwl]

Oasis, if you could point me in the direction of where it categorically (under law) states that 2 storey rentals defo require mains interlinked as a minimum I would massively appreciate it as it could lead to extra work for me!

I have been looking into it tonight and have not found anything definitive, and obviously I know it depends on the size/type of property that the OP is looking to let. I read on the landlord zone site that if property was built before 1992 then non-interlinked are sufficient. It goes on to say that properties built after June 92 must have mains interlinked. Not defo on reason for 1992 as a date but would possibly guess it’s related to the Building Reg’s and/or amendments thereof. Also do not have any knowledge as to how reputable this website is as a source.

HOWEVER I have also just read this: “For new dwellings, battery operated smoke alarms should not be used. These should only be used for retrofitting in existing bungalows, flats and owner occupied two storey houses in which there is adequate means of escape in the event of fire. Mains operated smoke alarms should be used for all new dwellings and for retrofitting in rented maisonettes and two storey houses” Again do not know how reputable this source is either.

And surprise surprise the above contradict each other! Could not be bothered to trawl through various government sites!

If you tie both the above statements together then you could conclude that pre 92 bungalows and flats being rented may have battery smokes, mains powered are required for rented maisonettes and 2 storey properties, and any post 92 properties all require mains powered.

I have never been too fond of the old RA, 90% of the time they appears to be mindless bureaucracy! I try to carry out risk assessments in my head continuously (or nearly!) For a typical domestic rental property I class them as entirely pointless. Bigger installs like HMO’s etc is a different kettle of fish.

Grade D systems can be connected to a local lighting cct. Though I see what you are saying regarding batteries draining after numerous nuisance trips and of course I would expect a professional system to have battery back-up. That goes without saying really.

Regards.

 

[oasistechnical]

Gatowl
use BS5839, local authority and the fire service,

we use BS5839 and EN54, but then we do mainly commercial/industrial/liesure industry.

we have a few renatl properties that we look after but not many, to much hassel with `i dont want to pay` landlords!!

Oasis