Help - thin mosaic border with thick field tile

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Hi all,

I've just started tiling my bathroom and have 250x410x9mm field tiles and then stupidly bought 10x10x4mm mosaic sheets to cut into strips for a border.

How the hell do I tile them so they are all flush?! I was thinking I could run a strip of cheap 4mm thick plain tiles round where the border is going and then tile the mosaic on top? My only concern is that it is a bath/shower area so I don't want to compromise the adhesive.

Also, is it possible to remove a tile that has been stuck to the wall and the adhesive is dry? It is one of the field tiles attached to tanked (with BAL WP1) plasterboard with BAL single part flex. I've noticed a very small blemish on the surface that I'd like to replace if possible. I'd like to try and replace it but don't want to damage the plasterboard :(

Thanks.
 
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Thin cheap tiles work fine for packing out or use a sheet of 4mm Wedi board, with powdered adhesive you should have no problems.

It is also possible to "screed" the tile adhesive to the correct thickness so the mosaic sits flush but takes a bit of practice, thats how I did the borders in this bathroom

I usually cut some strips of MDF the width of the border to space the upper section of tiles. Once the adhesive has set remove the MDF, fit the mosaic and tap it flush to the tiles either side with the flat of a grout float.

No easy way to remove the tiles with powdered adhesive, biggest risk is pulling the tanking away from the plasterboard, thats where its most likely to fail.

Jason
 
Hi Jason,

Thanks for replying. I was beginning to think there was no easy way of sorting this for an amateur tiler like me :)

I think I will be going with the cheap backing tiles as I'm not confident enough to build up a screed type layer to a sufficiently flat surface - I'd end up with bumps and holes everywhere! One of the Pitt guys over on tileforums.com has just suggested something similar.

So for my 9mm field tiles and 4mm border mosaics I assume I will need a 5mm thick backing tile to take up the space? Or should I use a 4mm to allow for adhesive?

What about using a strip of WBP ply as the packing - this could act as the baton to suppor the upper field tiles and then also as the packing for the mosaics. Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? It strikes me that this has the better chance of producing a flat level surface for the mosaics to go onto.

One last question, are 2mm grout lines ok with tiles of 250x410x9mm?
 
wizbongre said:
Hi Jason,

Thanks for replying. I was beginning to think there was no easy way of sorting this for an amateur tiler like me :)

I think I will be going with the cheap backing tiles as I'm not confident enough to build up a screed type layer to a sufficiently flat surface - I'd end up with bumps and holes everywhere! One of the Pitt guys over on tileforums.com has just suggested something similar.

So for my 9mm field tiles and 4mm border mosaics I assume I will need a 5mm thick backing tile to take up the space? Or should I use a 4mm to allow for adhesive?

What about using a strip of WBP ply as the packing - this could act as the baton to suppor the upper field tiles and then also as the packing for the mosaics. Is there any reason I shouldn't do this? It strikes me that this has the better chance of producing a flat level surface for the mosaics to go onto.

One last question, are 2mm grout lines ok with tiles of 250x410x9mm?
Hi All,

Sorry to ask again but I just wanted confirmation one way or t'other whether WBP plyboard is an option for packing in this scenario?

Thanks!
 
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Definately not ply, due tho the large proportion of grout : tile area water will soak into the grout (yes even if it says "waterproof" grout) this water will make the ply swell and pop the mosaics off the wall.

Use 4mm max tiles as you need a bit of adhesive to stick them to the wall and more adhesive to stick the mosaic to them, this is when something like BAl Mosaic Fix is handy as its a bright white so if you get a bit squeezing out between the mosaic its not a problem. If you do get any between the tiles wait until the adhesive is firm but not hard and rake it out with a stanley knife etc

2mm grout joint will be perfect

Jason
 
Jasonb said:
Definately not ply, due tho the large proportion of grout : tile area water will soak into the grout (yes even if it says "waterproof" grout) this water will make the ply swell and pop the mosaics off the wall.

Use 4mm max tiles as you need a bit of adhesive to stick them to the wall and more adhesive to stick the mosaic to them, this is when something like BAl Mosaic Fix is handy as its a bright white so if you get a bit squeezing out between the mosaic its not a problem. If you do get any between the tiles wait until the adhesive is firm but not hard and rake it out with a stanley knife etc

2mm grout joint will be perfect

Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks very much again for the answer. I hadn't even thought about the ply expanding with water - d'oh! I did a test last night putting 2 layers of the mosaics on top of each other above the row of field tiles and to be honest I think I will need to go down to 3mm backing tiles to allow for the adhesive as you say. I also agree that I will need something like the mosaic fix - the single part flex is off-white and will make grouting the mosaics a nightmare.

Thanks very much for your help - I now need to find some cheap 3mm thick tiles!
 
Of course another way to do it would be to put some nails into the edge of a piece of wood so that they stick out by 3mm. Put some adhesive on the wall and then drag the edge of the wood across the wall so that you'll be left with a 3mm bed of adhesive. Wait until it goes off then carry on tiling. ;)
 
gcol said:
Of course another way to do it would be to put some nails into the edge of a piece of wood so that they stick out by 3mm. Put some adhesive on the wall and then drag the edge of the wood across the wall so that you'll be left with a 3mm bed of adhesive. Wait until it goes off then carry on tiling. ;)

Thanks gcol - that idea has also been suggested but as I don't do this for a living I was looking for something that had more of a guarentee that my amateur skills would be able to achieve :) I think it may be the only option though due to the depths we are talking about.
 
Don't forget your 9mm wall tiles will stand 10-11mm off the wall once they are on adhesive.

Jason
 
Jasonb said:
Don't forget your 9mm wall tiles will stand 10-11mm off the wall once they are on adhesive.

Jason

Hi Jason,

I've got the first row of field tiles up working from the bath rim and as you say they come out just on 11mm. I can now work out with the mosaics exactly how far to come out with the adhesive packing.

Just one other question, is there a minimum or maximum gap to leave between the bath rim and the first row of tiles? I've had to leave about 8mm due to tile sizes and layout of the room else I'd have been cutting loads of tiles to very thin slivers - I think this is reasonable as long as I get the silicon on cleanly! It looks a bit naff at the mo as its just a gap but I'm hoping once its all grouted and sealed it will be fine...
 
I prefer to butt the tile up against the bath rim be it cut or uncut.

IMHO an 8mm gap will look horrible as the bead of silicon will be almost 12mm across. Reconsider your tile layout or raise the bath 6-8mm assuming the bath panel can take it.

Jason
 
That's the problem :( The bath is as high as it can go... I'll see if I can get it any higher but doubt it - it's already right up where the bath panel will just about meet the floor once its tiled Maybe if I can squeeze an extra couple of mil it will help.

And the gap between the top of the bath rim and the window reveal is just slightly bigger than the tiles I'm putting up so this layout worked best with the size of tile and the chosen border. Due to the whole room layout including boxed in pipes and stuff this way appeared to be the best way of avoiding any thin slivers of cuts either at the ceiling, window reveal, bath rim or floor.

Or I'd have to have a number of half tiles running round the middle of the room above the bath rim and below the border which I think would look more out of place due to it being a small room with big tiles, than if I have a bit more silicon than normal. Me and the girlfriend have just had a good look at it and think that with white tiles, white silicon and white bath the larger than normal silicon will just about be acceptable - our old downstairs loo has a sink with a splashback that is very similar (in fact it looks like the gap is about 10mm and it don't look all that bad.)

When you say 12mm across do you mean top to bottom or from the wall inwards horizontally?

I guess its all this stuff I'm learning as its my first full bathroom job so it wasn't ever going to be perfect :oops:

Thanks.
 
When you say 12mm across do you mean top to bottom or from the wall inwards horizontally?

Assuming the mastic will have a radius it will be 12mm corner to corner.

It can be difficult when there are several surfaces to consider. Other options are use a thicker plywood under your tiles but that may give a bigger step as you enter the room, or chip a bit of brick/block off the window cill - add a bit to the top soffit.

J
 
To be honest, the most important thing I'm taking away from doing a complete bathroom refit (back to bare brick and floorboards) hasn't been about plumbing, or electrics or plasterboarding... It's been an increased respect for skilled tilers who know what they are doing and do it well!

Ok, I see what you mean now about the sealant and 12mm. Whilst I agree it won't be the best the girlfriend and I are happier that this is the best compromise for the room layout. Due to the measurements involved I'd have to move one of the various horizontal planes (window ledge, ceiling, floor, boxed in pipes) close on 100mm to achieve the desired result which obviously ain't an option.

I originally thought the size of our tiles would make things easier as they closely fitted into the spaces available but as it turns out, it would have been better with slightly smaller tiles which although maybe needing more cuts would have allowed a bit more flexibility in the layout.

Your suggestion about raising the floor is noted but we are already at the limit of height before it will be a stupid step up!

Thanks for all your help :)
 
Jasonb said:
When you say 12mm across do you mean top to bottom or from the wall inwards horizontally?

Assuming the mastic will have a radius it will be 12mm corner to corner.

It can be difficult when there are several surfaces to consider. Other options are use a thicker plywood under your tiles but that may give a bigger step as you enter the room, or chip a bit of brick/block off the window cill - add a bit to the top soffit.

J

You were right - the more we looked at it the more the big sealant gap was going to be a problem... So I've cut the row of tiles and plasterboard out and redone it - just waiting for the tanking to dry out completely (again!) before I retile.

In the mean time I've taken the window ledge down about half inch and will then back fill it to the correct level of the tiles.

I can now tile straight off the bath- this gives me about 8mm of tile above the window ledge which when its all levelled off will look a lot better.

Thanks a lot for the advice.
 

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