Help with wiring 12v downlights

[willj23]

Hi all - wondered if someone could help me out.
I am currently renovating a property and have built an ensuite shower room - in the shower enclosure I want to put two down lights but having read around this forum I opted for the 12v fire rated lights from TLC with the following transformer:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTYT50.html

My question - what is the correct way to wire this up. I'm fairly confident with wiring and have installed 240v in other rooms but as these are directly above the shower I wanted to drop it down to 12v (if 240v is deemed acceptable than I am more than happy to put them in!)

I think where I'm coming unstuck is that the transformers are a sealed unit and I don't know the best way of linking the two lights together.

Any help would be appreciated - to preempt any questions of the such like, there is adequate ventilation in the roof space above (came out looking like a miner after cutting a hole in the roof space and removing soot build up!) and any work I carry out myself is fully inspected by a electrical firm and is signed off. This is my fourth renovation (got the bug...what can I say) and from a selling/legal and safety point of view for my own mind I always look to get it professionally certified.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am currently renovating a property

When you applied for Building Regulations approval, what did you say would be the way you'd comply with P1?

or...

How do you plan in the future to deal with the fact that you won't have a Building Regulations completion certificate or an Electrical Installation Certificate for a property you renovated?

and have built an ensuite shower room - in the shower enclosure I want to put two down lights but having read around this forum I opted for the 12v fire rated lights from TLC

Did you not read anything on this forum about the uselessness of downlights for lighting up rooms?

My question - what is the correct way to wire this up. I'm fairly confident with wiring and have installed 240v in other rooms but as these are directly above the shower I wanted to drop it down to 12v (if 240v is deemed acceptable than I am more than happy to put them in!)

If you don't know what the regulations say about what voltage lights can be used where, why are you doing electrical work?

I think where I'm coming unstuck is that the transformers are a sealed unit and I don't know the best way of linking the two lights together.

Sorry - that's nonsense.

Or rather it makes no sense for you to be "fairly confident with wiring" if you can't cope with transformers just because they have flying leads.

When you "installed 240v in other rooms", did you size the cables properly? Did you comply with the regulations on concealed cables? What tests did you carry out before and after energising?

Any help would be appreciated - to preempt any questions of the such like, there is adequate ventilation in the roof space above (came out looking like a miner after cutting a hole in the roof space and removing soot build up!)

So you've added contravention of Part L to your dodgy renovations.

Probably Part C as well.

and any work I carry out myself is fully inspected by a electrical firm and is signed off.

That's complete b******s.

It's not possible to get DIY electrical work signed off by someone else.

This is my fourth renovation (got the bug...what can I say) and from a selling/legal and safety point of view for my own mind I always look to get it professionally certified.

More b******s.

You're a menace and a charlatan. I hope you get caught, and prosecuted.

 

[willj23]

I was waiting for your response - I've noticed a lot of responses from you along the same sort of lines.
Have you nothing better to do - don't belittle me with your comments, having read around further about shower rooms - I shall consult someone who is an actual electrical as I didn't realise this didn't fall within usual 'diy' jurisdiction. My willingness to check and be compliant says that I am not some shyster who is looking to cut corners for quick gain so please don't accuse me of that.
I believe if you read this http://www.competentperson.co.uk/files/consumerbooklet.pdf I am fully entitled to do this type of work myself without contacting my building control department as it is "repair or replacement".

Please don't bother to reply - you seem to want to spout your spurious facts about building regulations that you obviously think impresses people, when actually people come on these forums to gain a greater understanding about things they are unsure about not to listen to your drivel and silly little witticisms.
As a part-time history student working towards a doctorate, I would have to say research and learning new things even something as taxing as 'wiring a 12v transformer' is something that is very much in my blood - but you don't seem to offer that.

I probably speak for a lot of people on here when I say - grow up and go and do something constructive with your time.

I'll be sure to email over the certificate of work when I get it. Have a great day.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I believe if you read this http://www.competentperson.co.uk/files/consumerbooklet.pdf I am fully entitled to do this type of work myself without contacting my building control department as it is "repair or replacement".

You'd be utterly wrong in that belief.

You've built a new shower room, i.e. created a new special location.

You are installing new lighting in this new special location.

Are you really that stupid that you think that counts as "repair and replacement"?

Do you really think that we are that stupid that we'll believe you when you say that installing new lights and new cables in a new shower room is "repair and replacement"?

Please don't bother to reply

I'm afraid that is not something you can make happen.

you seem to want to spout your spurious facts about building regulations that you obviously think impresses people,

Nothing spurious about them at all.

I'd ask you to show that they are spurious, but as you've already tried to say that you think that installing new lights and new cables in a new shower room is "repair and replacement" then you and the facts are clearly strangers.

when actually people come on these forums to gain a greater understanding about things they are unsure about not to listen to your drivel and silly little witticisms.

The understanding you need to gain is that you are not competent to be doing this work, that it is not "repair and replacement", that you need to apply for Building Regulations approval before you start and that you need to know how to do it before you start.

As a part-time history student working towards a doctorate, I would have to say research and learning new things even something as taxing as 'wiring a 12v transformer' is something that is very much in my blood - but you don't seem to offer that.

You're too late.

Competence is not acquired by asking whatever questions happen to occur to you as you go along and as you encounter things you think you need to ask about.

I probably speak for a lot of people on here when I say - grow up and go and do something constructive with your time.

And I probably speak for a lot of people here when I say that someone who doesn't already know what the regulations say about luminaires in shower rooms, and who says "I think where I'm coming unstuck is that the transformers are a sealed unit and I don't know the best way of linking the two lights together" is not competent enough to be carrying out the rewiring associated with property renovations on this scale.

• For a circuit to supply a given load, how would you go about deciding what cable and protective device to use?
  
  
• Do you know which circuits can be ring finals and which cannot, and what the advantages and disadvantages of each are?
  
  
• Do you know what the two main lighting circuit topologies are, and what the advantages and disadvantages of each are?
  
  
• How do you calculate maximum demand and how can diversity be used?
  
  
• What are the 3 different types of domestic single-phase supplies provided in this country, how would you recognise them, and what differences do each make to the requirements for the rest of the installation, particularly any outdoor supplies?
  
  
• Can you correctly identify all components and connections of a circuit by method of testing or otherwise? In doing so can you identify or recognise anything wrong or dangerous with the circuit?
  
  
• Do you understand how the way in which you install cables affects how much current they can carry?
  
  
• What are the rules concerning cables concealed in walls, partitions and under floors?
  
  
• What are the rules for cables run outdoors, buried in the ground or overhead?
  
  
• Where cables need to be joined, how should this be done / not be done and in what circumstances are different methods acceptable?
  
  
• Can you identify extraneous conductive parts, and do you know the requirements for main and supplementary bonding of them?
  
  
• Which circuits should be RCD protected?
  
  
• Do you know what tests you would carry out on the installation - what sequence you'd do them in and at what point you would energise the installation, and for each test do you know what is being measured, why it is important, how you would carry out the test, and with what equipment, and what sort of results you would expect to get if everything was OK?

I'll be sure to email over the certificate of work when I get it..

Of course you will.

 

[bernardgreen]

I am going to appear to be very negative here. You need to read it and consider how much essential knowledge you are lacking for this work to be safe.

I am fully entitled to do this type of work myself without contacting my building control department as it is "repair or replacement".

You have cut a hole in a ceiling to fit a new lamp. That is not repair or replacement.

you seem to want to spout your spurious facts about building regulations

They are not spurious facts.

As a part-time history student working towards a doctorate,

Not a reason to believe you can learn the knowledge for safe electrical design and installation. Unless you research the history of accidents and fatalities resulting from un-safe electrical work.

after cutting a hole in the roof space and removing soot build up!

Soot in the roof space ? You seem to have a defective flue leaking into the roof space. This suggests the possibility of flue gases entering the attic. If those gases descend though the holes around your new lamps then persons in the room could be at risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. It also suggests a possibility of hot flue gases and ( if solid fuel is being burnt ) sparks creating a fire risk in the attic.

Soot is carbon and will burn ( as in chimney fires ). Soot landing on the top of a hot downlighter could ignite and burn in the updraft of warm air from the lamp.

Building inspectors offer a lot of help and advice to receptive DIYer. Their role is to protect people from shoddy, bodged and dangerous work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Unfortunately he thinks that all he needs to know to be able to do a safe, professional and legal job of this renovation is how to connect up a couple of transformers, which have him baffled because they have flying leads rather than terminals.

 

[Robgers]

and from a selling/legal and safety point of view for my own mind I always look to get it professionally certified.

From a common sense point of view, why not get it professionally installed?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Would he use a competent professional?

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=226711

 

[1john]

To wire a transformer - attach a feed to the primary and the load to the secondary, it's that simple.

It is not permitted for a private firm to sign off other peoples work pretending that it is their own, anyone willing to do this is breaking the law. If someone doesn't care about breaking the law and only wants to make a few quid then perhaps you wouldn't want to assume they are testing your installation properly. If you only care about getting a bit of paper then fine, if you care about bodge ups killing people then thats a different matter. As always the best advice I can offer you is to get an electrician on site. Get him there before the butchery begins. Ask if he is willing to let you do the donkey work, he may be happy for you to lift floorboards, drill joists (in the specified locations and without the holes being bigger that allowed and at the prescribed depth in from the top or bottom of the joist - see theres quite alot to know about drilling a hole in a joist before you start) he may also be happy for you to chase out the walls for the cables and accessories as long as the cables are going to be routed in prescribed zones ect. He may be happy for you to run the cables as long as you clip them where they are required to be clipped and are adequatly supported in accordance with BS7671. Obviously he will need to be inspecting this as it happens to make sure that everything is correct.

Although all of this is hypothetical. This is one way you could do the work, the other is to inform building control before you start.

Electrical installations can work (be functional) and extremely dangerous!!

 

[willj23]

Thanks for the reply - common theme occurring, and i will get someone in to ask whats the best solution for it.
Despite what this mindless clown who patrols this forum thinks - i do care about mine and others safety, and i think the fact that i use the forum to ask that demonstrates that to some extent.

To that mindless clown - i don't actually doubt you have a good knowledge in this particular subject matter, you do however lose all credibility by the way in which you articulate your message. Rudeness and mindless arrogance generally aren't well received by people - which is probably why most people on this forum don't respond well to your comments.

I find it both worrying, and unfortunately sad that you also bring up a post i made last year when i did have an issue with a registered tradesman - i hope you do now realise that actually negated your pathetic point you were trying to make.
However if you are trying to make out i am foolish for not knowing the quality of a tradesman who i sourced from a small directory called the ‘yellow pages’ then yes i probably am a fool in your deluded little world. I see you also referred to me under a ‘dodgy renovation’ post aswell, which i must say demonstrates class and a distinct intelligence. Pat yourself on the back for another little quip. Well done.

You must excuse my late reply - after 5pm, i have been working, however given your response time and sheer volume of responses you probably aren't familiar with this concept of working.
If you want something to fill your time - can i suggest starting a revolt against companies like B&Q and Wickes who sell lights/downlights etc?
A theme amongst all your posts is that people who aren't qualified to fit electrics shouldn't attempt it and are idiots for doing so- if this is the case why on earth are they readily available. That genuinely baffles me - so please for your own sanity please find out the answer.

Last point of note - you do realise that since you joined this forum 8 years ago, you have made over 31,000 posts… that equates to 11 posts a day (rounded down of course)...…everyday.
Can i please suggest going for a brisk walk occasionally or maybe a course to enhance your people skills?
I dont receive notifications and i wont be checking back, so please dont waste your time (a novel concept perhaps?) in replying. Just try not to be as belittling to people in future - you might find people respond better.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Goodbye then.

My conscience is clear.