high level mounting of radiator

[frenchey]

Apologies if this has been asked before but I cannot find it.

Mainly due to space limitations I am considering mounting a wide/short radiator at or above head hight. This is in a small bathroom (1.6x1.2m). The CH pipes enter at ceiling level which is another reason why the high level mounting has benefits.

I know this is not a general accepted position but I was wondering how much the efficiency of the radiator would be affected (if at all)? Or if there are any other reasons why this would not be advisable?

Are there any radiators that are specifically designed for this situation or a particular type that would work best?

Thanks in advance

 

[gasbanni]

Just mount it at the normal level and have the pipes running down

Mounted at a high level the heat will stay high up, and you dont want that !

Loads of times you have a drop system where the pipes feed a rad from high up !

 

[45yearsagasman]

Fan assisted radiator mounted at high level would look better IMO.

 

[ServiceNumpty]

Radiant heater?

 

[frenchey]

gasbanni - I could but I want to mount high to give me more useable floor area.

45yearsagasman - sounds interesting, is this a radiator with an inbuilt fan or simply a separate radiator with a separate fan mounted above?

michele5041 - if by radiant you mean electric this is not an option it is too close to a shower

 

[Master of None]

http://www.hcp-sasint.co.uk/uploads/files/Radiant_Heating_Brochure.pdf

Just installed some of these in a hospital. Dont know if they are normaly used in houses but they are pretty good.

 

[David937]

http://www.hcp-sasint.co.uk/uploads/files/Radiant_Heating_Brochure.pdf

Just installed some of these in a hospital. Dont know if they are normaly used in houses but they are pretty good.

Has those at our school, quite nice they were, very nice even heat. They had a bank of non-condensing boilers to run them as they required a higher temperature than the UFH etc.

 

[frenchey]

Thanks for the suggestion. If I hadnt already fitted the showerhead, ventilation extractors and downlights in the ceiling one of these might have been the answer but unfortunately the small ceiling would present problems.

However, back to my original question. If I was to fit a normal panel radiator (say 1200 wide x 300 high) mounted with the bottom edge 1850 from the ground (ceiling is 2.4m high). Would the room feel warm or will we be shivering in the shower? The shower room is only 1600x1200 with one small porthole type window so should not need much.

 

[Agile]

If you listened to the advice you have been given or even thought about physics "O" level concepts you would see that that will not make the room warm.

Radiators work by air convection currents. Unless its mounted low down then there will be nn convection.

Your only solution is a fanned heater.

But an electric fan heater would be about 1/10 th of the price!

Tony

 

[cantaloup63]

If you want your head to keep warm then the convection currents would be working at head height and not be significantly affecting the colder, more dense air further down.

 

[xr4x4]

How about the floor?

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

Given this type of radiator is designed to draw in cool air from the bottom, and release warm air from the top, then the efficiency of the radiator will be effected as the air cycle it creates will be operating at the highest level of the room only, and not at the optimum lowest level. While the temperature in the lower part of the room will rise, to what degree and at what rate is hard to calculate.

 

[shagty]

fitting a wall mounted radiator at high level will simply not work.
a radiator as distinct from a 'radiant panel' noted above, transmits heat primarily through convection. therefore, in order to induce convection currents, it must be sited in cooler denser air naturally present at low level. if you must fit a water based heater at high level, it must include a fan so as to overcome the buoyancy of the warm air.

bathroom heating is often overlooked. i think the optimum heating system for bathrooms and shower rooms alike should have dual output capacity.

lower output or background heating mode to provide comfortable room temperature.
higher output or boost mode to deal with intermittent showering which involves ventilation heat loss problems associated with condensation.

the most cost effective solution for your typical 3-bed house (on moderate budget) would probably comprise two heaters; 1. radiator/towel rail with integrated rad for background heating and 2. electrical fan assisted convectors for boost heating.

it sounds like a low level radiator/towel rail is a non-runner and you are confined to a single heater to deliver background and boost heating.

here are a number of options you could consider:

1. using existing hot water (LPHW):

1.1 fan assisted LPHW convector mounted at high level.
effective, but expensive and overkill IMO

1.2 slim-line skirting heaters (convectors) mounted at low level
pipe drops would be required but could be slabbed over.
effective, compact and discreet

1.3 floor heating or even wall heating are options.
very effective and discreet but expensive and very disruptive


2. using electrical supply
2.1 fan assisted electrical convector mounted at high level.
labour friendly and very effective for intermittent heating etc.

2.2 electrical floor heating with new floor finish to conceal mats(heatmat)
effective and the most discreet system available

2.3 wall mounted electrical radiant heater at high level, above door for example.
effective for boost heating but costly for background heating.

good luck

 

[frenchey]

Thanks for the replies - especially Shagty which gives an excellent summary of my options

I fully accept that what I am asking about is far from efficient. However, can I try a different tack. Putting my physics o level qualifications to one side - could I really put out out 2300 BTUs from a simple panel and get the temperature in the top half, of what is basically a cubicle (1.6 x 1.2 x 2.4), to stay at around 26 degrees while the temperature nearer the floor remained unafected at say below 14 deg. Surely once the upper walls and ceiling have reached temperature there is a radiation effect that will begin to warm the lower levels. I would also expect that just opening the door and walking in would create sufficient air movement to cause some diffusion between the thermal layers. There must be a given output that, for a small space, would negate the physics of convection and give me a reasonable temperature at lower levels - or would my head have exploded long before my toes were warm?

By fan assisted radiator do you mean something like this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/RADIATOR-BOOSTER-MK3/dp/B006302GGW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322412489&sr=8-1

 

[shagty]

a radiator at high level in a compact room with minimal heat loss (internal room at first floor level with no windows), could meet the heating needs of some people.

but even putting efficiency to one side, i think the temperature variation between your head and feet would be very uncomfortable, as noted above. also the effectiveness of the heater would depend on your whole house heating schedule.

the radiator booster in the amazon link above is designed only for use with low level heaters.

hydronic fan assisted convectors are suitable for certain schemes where low level space is limited but I think your room is too small

http://www.myson.co.uk/products/hi_line_rc.asp

given the size of the room, i think the best option is a down flow electric heater with thermostatic control and would only cost about 25 pounds