hmmm...

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so 20 years in the industry and you wear gloves to work on equipment and you NEVER work live?

I've only got 12 years in the electrical installation and maintenance industry and I'm NIC EIC approved QM for my company and obviously this involves alot of test and inspection and industrial/commerical work.

In this short amount of time I have NEVER seen anyone wear gloves as a method of direct contact prevention (because your talking rubbish) or indeed handcuffs, a strait jacket, or anything else that you can think of to hamper the dexterity of the hands you rely on to deftly and safely carry out work. Further more, EVERY serious electrician at times will have to work on live equipment, and before you call this illegal it isnt, it is merely strongly advised, and live work is permitted in circumstances when total isolation is too impractical and alternative risk assessment and protocols are developed. For instance, killing power to a machine which costs 15k per hour in downtime, killing power to local authority or police CCTV survelience systems, An investment banks server, etc.

It is not complacent to be able to work with live electricity. It is stupid to work on electricity if you are not a qualified electrician and dont know what you are doing. Things that might suggest you dont know what you are doing, include a belief that your favorite gloves, hat or shoes will in any way prevent you from getting an electric shock

Now I'm guessing that the guy who wrote this block is either a DIY'er or what we in the trade call a 'house basher'. However he is right about one thing. If you have previously had a shock from a single phase (like at home, 230v a/c) supply and not been affected much beyond a tingle, this does not mean you are immune. anything above 50v A/C is considered potentially lethal to humans, (although with a healthy candidate an estimated 8 seconds continuous contact is predicted to cause sufficiantly sever burns/cardiac arrest) and 230v is more than man enough for this job. If you were not very well earthed at the time (i.e standing on wooden floor boards, in rubber shoes, etc.) the shock would be less. Just for laughs, try touching the same live while holding onto a radiator. (really dont, that would be stupid).

Most important thing here, if you need to log onto a site like this to find out how to isolate a circuit then you are definitely going to kill yourself. please dont, call a reputable electrician, who has invested in experience and education/qualifications for the right to rinse you out of chunks of your hard earned cash to do something you are too stupid to do.

Aww dont feel bad, go...err...put up a shelf or something.
 
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Anything critical will always have some form of UPS with further backups and anything SERIOUSLY critical will have plenty of redundany built in.

Working live (if it makes you feel special) is reserved more for adding an MCB to an MCB board you would rather not turn off, or an MCCB panel board (and if it requires hex keys then you can feel really special).

If you go working on something live which is critical - YOU ARE A PILLOCK (speeling?). What happens if you do have an accident, short something out, do something wrong etc? That piece of critical kit still ends up with no power.....

I am happy for you that you are a QS (or does QM make you feel even more appointed?).........shocked, but happy for you.
 
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Working live (if it makes you feel special) is reserved more for adding an MCB to an MCB board you would rather not turn off, or an MCCB panel board (and if it requires hex keys then you can feel really special).
.

Most MCCB manfacturers will not advise that their products are installed onto Live busbars ! (definitely Square D and ABB )
 
so 20 years in the industry and you wear gloves to work on equipment and you NEVER work live?

The poster doesn't say to NEVER work live though, does he? If you're so highly qualified haven't you noticed the difference words like 'SHOULD' make in the wiring regs?

And if you're not giving 'belt and braces' advice on a public DIY site then what do you suggest instead?
 
Working live (if it makes you feel special) is reserved more for adding an MCB to an MCB board you would rather not turn off, or an MCCB panel board (and if it requires hex keys then you can feel really special).
.

Most MCCB manfacturers will not advise that their products are installed onto Live busbars ! (definitely Square D and ABB )

For both MCB and MCCB boards, no manufature is going to say you can safely work life - they just wouldn't.

The "Isolate before move cover" stickers kind on make that point...
 
Sorry back, I'm not going to suggest diy for electrics to people. That is Illegal. I think the site is a great idea to advise people on the potential depth of work they might need done, and I dont mind offering advice on telephone, fire or intruder alarm or CCTV, but to an untrained person wanting to know how to correctly isolate my advice would be only to call an electrician. I dont want to upset anyone, and I realise that most advice you guys offer (having read a few posts now) is all suffixed with '...and call an electrician...' but securesparks suggestion to un skilled 'have-a-go-hero's' to wear gloves in the interests of safety is, I feel irresponsible.
Like I say, dont want to upset anyone but really , gloves?

And besides, Live work is called for and I'm sure that many among you will have conducted it at various stanges in your career's. Of course I work dead whenever feasible (which is most of the time) but little in this industry is as cut and dry as suggested and its misleading to they DIY types this site attracts no? Infact live work must legally be carried out by each of you on every job.
 
In fact, Lectrician, has been kind enough to reveal that at times he/she has obviously deemed it nessesary to install MCCB's to live bus bars because he/sh would 'rather not turn off' the entire panel.

While you may poo poo this in the interests of sounding high and mightly, this may be because the other MCCB's provide power to lighting DB's, or power a production line in a factory with 200+ workers. is it practical to cease production (at enormous cost), put the workers on standby, out of the building as there is no lighting, then spend 5 mins fitting your new MCCB, then letting the on site engineers know they can now begin re-setting the line for continued production in, oh and hour or so?

Its nice to say neverr work live, but if we are honest it happens. you try quoting a factory to fit a new minor machine, with the requisite that you must be allowed to shut them down for an indeterminate amount of time.
Just trying to be realistic here guys/gals.
 
Its the age old probablem, business owner wants to avoid a shut down and will put pressure on the sparks to avoid one, usually the sparks mental risk assement decides what he is happy to roll with and what he must insist on out of hours working for, things tend to go bang when maintence sparks get put under presure to do what they have already advised isn't a safe practice, of course its the sparks fault when it does...!

of course its the other way as well, a spark who routinly refuses to fit MCBs without shutting down the whole board unless there is a reason to do so is not going to be very popular... and certainly if its a merlin board it doesn't even involve live working!

Have seen live working gloves used, normally when the task involves lighting trunking system stuffed full of conductors from countless unidentifed circuits and riddled with connector blocks and crimps that like to drop out when the lis is removed!
 

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