hot water cylinder may be too small :(.... advice needed pl

[Corgigrouch]

hope these replies to all your question will help you guys in helping me sort this dilema out.
spoke to the Hansgrohe chap and he just said that i should contact the heating design engineer for this solution. but all the experience i have had in the past with plumbers is that their ok for any mainstream bog standard installations and anything slightly complicated they tend to shake their heads and just disappear!




You want a solution but can't give them any information.... I wouldn't want to waste your time either..

 

[Dan Robinson]

Dude, you really don't get it do you? Please... we are happy to help, but you need to answer the questions properly otherwise you will get the wrong advise.

 

[pappasmurf]

dan i keep telling u guys i dont have the answers to these basic questions!.... it's embarassing for me too but this is why i just need initial guidance at least as to what system should i be looking at atleast?...a combi?....conventional?... just something to go on!

 

[Dan Robinson]

OK... on the promise of some decent figure later .

We recently did a similar sized house with pheck all space for plant. Street pressure was 2 bar.

What was installed was a 1000 litre cistern under the living room floor void. A Grundfos booster pump set to 4 bar. A 330 litre variable pressure OSO unvented cylinder cranked up to 4 bar. An Atag system boiler and a rig with hot an cold supplies run to the plant area and fed from manifolds. Pictures are in my profile.

I can almost guarantee you won't run your specification directly form the water main in London. You might get away with Accumulators; but at least a pumped system give guaranteed performance. Total cost of the plant (including a high capacity water softener and controls £26K.

That doesn't include the UFH or rads.

Untitled

• Dan Robinson
• 18 Dec 2011
• 2

Untitled

• Dan Robinson
• 18 Dec 2011
• 2

 

[Dan Robinson]

I should add that the owner of this project requested the performance levels. We advised it was OTT, but it ended up with the architect and I shrugging our shoulders and ending up with what you see above.

 

[pappasmurf]

what the hell!....... dan look at the size of this beast!....i'm gonna need another building to house all this gubbins!......i'm no plumber but even i can see its way OTT!!
and £26k!!!!! with not a even a taste of any heating solutions! i'm in the wrong trade!..... charging that sort of money i bet you've probably got a couple of 10 bedroom properties yourself!
can u tell me what you had suggested/advised the client to do less before he went OTT with this system?.... because if i can get away with that same advice or something alot less then it would be alot better!

also would love to see a foto of the 1000lt cistern aswell if u have it

 

[Norcon]

This is supplying a 1bath, 2 ensuite and separate shower room with 4 mira excels. Occupancy = 8 people.

Total cost of plant = £4k excluding the 370sq/m of ufh.
Mains pressure is 6bar delivered to the property in 32mm mdpe.

Looks like I win the contract.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Will have to dig out the calcs from the archive, but it was a short discussion, and the main issue was sustained pressure. Goalposts kept moving on the sanitary appliances too

A 1000 litre cisten is actually quite underwhelming when. You see it in the flesh - approximately 2' high by 4' by 5' if memory serves.

It wasn't 26, sorry it was 20 Inc.


But that was a pump, boiler, softener long flue and controls

 

[Norcon]

approximately 2' high by 4' by 5' if memory serves

or a meter square.

 

[Dan Robinson]

smaller than I imagined anyway. it was squeeky anus time when we offered it up to the opening....than God the builders listened when we gave them the dimensions.

Funny how some things stick in the mind

 

[Dan Robinson]

Can only find one of our workings out... but with 3 simultaneous showers @ 18l/min a couple of baths overlapping at various stages - plus a few basins and sinks.... we recommended a base installation of 250 litres with 68kW input.

Not taking into account coil inefficiencies and higher flow rate showers... We flooded that cylinder to 380 litres to be on the safe side .

Like I said though - goal posts were moving, and one of our suppliers was going bust .

 

[Space cat]

- approximately 2' high by 4' by 5' if memory serves.

That would be about right. A thousand litres is a tad over 35 cu ft. It also weighs a metric tonne so I can see why you put it under the floor.

 

[Nige F]

ristrictors would mean i might as well go for a less powerful shower head, which i really dont wonna do!

. but all the experience i have had in the past with plumbers is that their ok for any mainstream bog standard installations and anything slightly complicated they tend to shake their heads and just disappear!...... pls someone help

I`m one of those too but I would suggest you`re looking @ the wrong showerhead - those massive " rain" heads use a massive volume of water , but if you want "powerful" consider multi jets / body sprays etc. Your supplier should have the tech details and you can compare the volumes used Just don`t ask me for tech calcs. etc. I`m an " ideas man "

 

[pappasmurf]

Nige F we've got body jets in our existing house and we hardly use it
just love those super shower heads

dan robinson... been analazing and zooming in and out of your photo gallery; very impressive neat and clean finish, which is what i'm looking for ... its just your price i feel would not be within my budget as we have to consider the "whole" house in our renovations (loft extension/rear extension/out building/etc etc). so am really confused as to what to do
dan can you tell me why you don't prefer the megaflow compared to an OSO cylinder as the plumbers i have spoken to have given me contrary advice as to the reliability of the OSO cylinders. don't know who to belive?

Norcon your photo of the system seemed abit hap-hazard to me with wires and pipes flying all over the place (no offence!) can you tell me if this set up of yours can still provide the sort of flow/pressure that i am looking for with the shower head we have selected? remember 4 shower rooms 2 kitchens (sory diddn't mention before; as part of the house will be let out). pls see the link below for the shower heads (in 2 of the bathrooms only!)

http://www.hansgrohe.co.uk/productdetail.html?category=C0000000000079&model=27381XXX&lang=en_UK

 

[Norcon]

That was a part way finished snap. The plastic was providing temporary f&r from a temporary boiler to the 370 sq/m of ufh.
But yes I'd agree a bit hap hazzard at that point. Not something one would advertise for work with. But than I don't need to come on here to advertise for work.
Some course cowboy will arrive shortly and use Dans images as his own. He won't do that with mine.
I can't tell you what will work with your system as I don't know flow rates etc.
But Dans the man. Listen to him and you won't go far wrong.