House rewire diagrams

[JohnW2]

I am not sure I understand the difference. There are certificates with possibilities for separate signatures for design, construction and/or testing. There is none with a distinction between the 'responsibility' and the 'carrying out' any of the three.

There is no difference - as you say, all certificates refer to both 'responsibility for' and 'carrying out'. My point was that BAS was potentially confusing people by highlighting the 'responsibility' bits but not the 'carrying out' bits of the declaration. Were the all-important 'carrying out' bit, which he chose not to highlight, not there, his point would have been invalid.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Aaah. I see what you mean.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't.

My higlighting was to show that the declaration was being made by the person responsible for Construction, that "construction" appeared in the list of activities the declarer said he had carried out and that he was certifying the said work for which he had been responsible.

To say that because I did not also highlight "having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the" I might confuse people into thinking that an EIC admitted the possibility of someone other than the person who carried out the work being responsible for it is perverse.

And that's putting it mildly.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't.

The OP was under the common misapprehension that it is possible for an electrician to issue an IEC, accepting responsibility for work that (s)he had not carried out. I was therefore surprised that, in attempting to 'put the OP right', you quoted the declaration with highlighting of the "responsible for" bits (which is what the OP expected to see), but not the "carried out" bit (of which the OP was seemingly unaware) - rather than the converse.

Kind Regards, John

 

[davyb21]

I am not sure I understand the difference.

There are certificates with possibilities for separate signatures for design, construction and/or testing.

There is none with a distinction between the 'responsibility' and the 'carrying out' any of the three.

Does this mean the electrician could provide a certificate for testing (providing it passed) and I could accept responsibility for the design and construction? Or do I need an electrician to provide certificates for all aspects to comply with building regulations?

Appreciate everyone’s help and input into this and apologies if I do not completely understand it. Am just trying to understand if there is anything I can do to keep costs down or do I have to get an electrician to do every aspect of the job?

Just to give everyone a bit more insight into the project, I am currently splitting one house into 2 and I assumed (which could be very wrong based on my previous assumptions!!) I would need to carry out a full rewire of the new dwelling and potentially even the old house that is getting separated off to comply with building regs. Does anyone know if this is correct or if there is an option to split the current wiring without carrying out a full rewire on each?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Does this mean the electrician could provide a certificate for testing (providing it passed) and I could accept responsibility for the design and construction?

Do you genuinely think you would be qualified to sign this:

I being the person responsible for the Design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.

and a similar one for construction?

Do you genuinely think that your Building Control department would accept that you were qualified to sign them?

Am just trying to understand if there is anything I can do to keep costs down or do I have to get an electrician to do every aspect of the job?

You need to find an electrician and discuss and agree with him how much of the work he is happy for you to do.

Does anyone know if this is correct or if there is an option to split the current wiring without carrying out a full rewire on each?

It's wrong.

And I would suggest that the lack of knowledge it betokens about what the Wiring Regulations require of electrical installations make it unlikely that you could credibly declare that you could design and construct them in compliance with BS 7671.

 

[jagillham]

There is always the DIY job followed by signing off by the local building control which BAS never mentions.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So this has nothing to do with notifying electrical work not done by someone who can self-certify?

But you aren't doing the electrical work in isolation. "Moving some walls" is almost certainly going to need Building Regulations approval, so the electrics would just be part of that.

 

[davyb21]

Does this mean the electrician could provide a certificate for testing (providing it passed) and I could accept responsibility for the design and construction?

Do you genuinely think you would be qualified to sign this:

I being the person responsible for the Design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.

and a similar one for construction?

Do you genuinely think that your Building Control department would accept that you were qualified to sign them?

I don't genuinely think anything, which is why I am asking for advice not a patronising lecture.

Am just trying to understand if there is anything I can do to keep costs down or do I have to get an electrician to do every aspect of the job?

You need to find an electrician and discuss and agree with him how much of the work he is happy for you to do.

Does anyone know if this is correct or if there is an option to split the current wiring without carrying out a full rewire on each?

It's wrong.

And I would suggest that the lack of knowledge it betokens about what the Wiring Regulations require of electrical installations make it unlikely that you could credibly declare that you could design and construct them in compliance with BS 7671.

On this point, I am not talking about doing anything myself. Maybe I shouldn’t have said "I Would" what I mean is get an electrician to carry out. I just want to know what options are available to me for splitting wiring from one house into two so I can talk to an electrician about doing this.

 

[davyb21]

There is always the DIY job followed by signing off by the local building control which BAS never mentions.

How does this work, does it mean that building control would come and check the current state of the wiring and advise what isn't up to standard and advise you of what needs doing? A lot of the wiring looks to have been done in recent years.

 

[jagillham]

I am by no means an expert, but BCO can sign off what you have done for a fee. Don't get me wrong, you'll need to know (or find out) what you supposed to be doing, and it might not work in your situation.

The fact is as much as some might try to say they only way to get it legal is with an electrician doing it, that is plain wrong. You can DIY it so long as you notify the local building control first, and get them to sign it after.

 

[Maxatoria]

But beware the BCO cost can be a lot more than getting in an electrician who can self certify the work and the advice from the BCO may not be the best as they can't be a qualified electrician/plumber/gas fitter/structural engineer/roofer etc and you'll need to provide in a lot of detail what you're going to do before hand so expect to have to draw up detailed plans, show you are reasonably competent to do the work (calculations of volt drops/de-rating etc) and produce any test results they want and throw in the cost of the meter company guy coming in to remove the main fuse should you need to replace the fuse board and the hire of the required test equipment to keep everyone happy may make it a bit more expensive to say the least

 

[JohnW2]

Does this mean the electrician could provide a certificate for testing (providing it passed) and I could accept responsibility for the design and construction? Or do I need an electrician to provide certificates for all aspects to comply with building regulations?

I'm getting rather confused by this discussion. Who does, and does not, sign the EIC (in whole or part) is not really the issue.

There are only two routes to compliance with Part P of the Building Regulations in respect to 'notifiable' work - EITHER by use of a self-certifying electrician who, as BAS has pointed out, has to declare/certify that (s)he has carried out the design, construction and testing OR by making an up-front application to the LA (for a fee which, for standalone electrical work is likely to be in the range £200-£400) who will then deal with supervision, inspection and testing, regardless of who is carrying out the work. Even if you were fully competent and/or qualified to design, construct and test the installation (which is clearly not the case), and completed the EIC accordingly, you still would not be able to self-certify the work.

If the work were not all undertaken by a self-certifying electrician (and you couldn't find an electrician who is prepared to 'fraudulently' declare that (s)he has undertaken it all), then you have no (legal) option other than to go by the second route.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is always the DIY job followed by signing off by the local building control which BAS never mentions.

A very important and fundamental point to note is that DIY electrical work has not been outlawed. It has been brought within the remit of the Building Regulations and cannot be carried out as freely as it was before, and in many cases cannot be carried out without involving your local council, but you may still DIY.