Right well today, in a storage cupboard between two flats, on a pair of metal step ladders one arm resting on a cast iron soil pipe, looking through a hole with a small penlight plastic torch.. WHEN the torch touched a bare live wire which my boss had left exposed ( i know, what a d**k, i had a kind word with him) but yeah i got a right belt, i felt it through one arm across my chest and too my other arm on the cast soil pipe, the RCD did not trip.. so ifit only takes 6 miliamps or what ever across the chest to kill you, how am i still alive :S??
How am i still alive ???
- Thread starter danplumb
- Start date
Sponsored Links
P
Paul_C
Good fortune?
Assuming that the RCD was working properly, then the shock current must have been below its tripping threshold. A few milliamps can still give a very painful shock, but not necessarily fatal. It depends upon the current level, duration of contact, your physiology, and so on. A shock of a particular magnitude and duration, across the same body parts, can prove fatal to one person but not another.
It's not like some horror picture where the mad doctor is trying to extract information from some helpless victim he has wired up and is turning up the juice with a "When the dial reaches 500, you will die" line. It just doesn't work like that - There are too many variables.
A
Alarm
Time for
1, a new boss
2, non conductive steps
3, rubber torch
4, new underware
1, a new boss
2, non conductive steps
3, rubber torch
4, new underware
- Joined
- 11 Jan 2004
- Messages
- 42,819
- Reaction score
- 2,653
- Country
Boss?
Sounds like a complete numbskull to me.
Where was his safe isolation??
I can't believe he has the nerve to call himself your Boss when he acts like that.
A similar thing happened to me, although it was not an electrical injury. I needed loads of time off to heal the injury (a dislocated shoulder) and ended up being "let go". Whether or not that was prompted by my suing him, I'm not sure...
Let me tell you what would happen in our firm.
We would have to report this ASAP as an accident to the relevent people.
We would then have to down tools immediately and ring our manager, who would have taken us to hospital to be checked out as a victim of electric shock.
If the accident was RIDDOR reportable, that would be reported as such.
We would then be suspended on full pay pending an internal investigation. If that investigation proved that we had worked contrary to our procedures, then disciplinary action would be taken.
The kind of incident you describe would, in our firm, very likely lead to the dismissal of all those involved on that job.
The reason being that HSW places the onus on everyone to work safely and to speak up if safe procedures are being ignored.
I would suggest you report it as an accident and get checked out medically just to make sure you're OK and cover your a$$.
Sounds like a complete numbskull to me.
Where was his safe isolation??
I can't believe he has the nerve to call himself your Boss when he acts like that.
A similar thing happened to me, although it was not an electrical injury. I needed loads of time off to heal the injury (a dislocated shoulder) and ended up being "let go". Whether or not that was prompted by my suing him, I'm not sure...
Let me tell you what would happen in our firm.
We would have to report this ASAP as an accident to the relevent people.
We would then have to down tools immediately and ring our manager, who would have taken us to hospital to be checked out as a victim of electric shock.
If the accident was RIDDOR reportable, that would be reported as such.
We would then be suspended on full pay pending an internal investigation. If that investigation proved that we had worked contrary to our procedures, then disciplinary action would be taken.
The kind of incident you describe would, in our firm, very likely lead to the dismissal of all those involved on that job.
The reason being that HSW places the onus on everyone to work safely and to speak up if safe procedures are being ignored.
I would suggest you report it as an accident and get checked out medically just to make sure you're OK and cover your a$$.
Sponsored Links
He says it was my fault as he said " i'd seen him cut the wires' a good few hours ago ! so i suppose i should assume that hes left them bare and live rather than safely isolated ! this guys only a joiner and is always doing dodgy things like this, he doesnt care to health and safety, all hes botherd about is his pocket ! its only me and him at work so no actions would be taken and he`d just tell me to be careful.. but i cant find any other jobs 
..
..
Sorry - I know times are hard etc, but the guy is a dangerous and callous scumbag.
He needs to be locked up.
He needs to be locked up.
Who said he was either?
Don't forget that RCDs also need regular testing if they're to retain their 30mA value.
It seems strange that a plastic torch should conduct enough electricity to give you a shock. I suppose if it's got some sort of foil skin it may be enough to conduct some current, and thankfully limit it.
Paint, rust, poor eaths etc can also help limit the severity of a shock.
Don't forget that RCDs also need regular testing if they're to retain their 30mA value.
It seems strange that a plastic torch should conduct enough electricity to give you a shock. I suppose if it's got some sort of foil skin it may be enough to conduct some current, and thankfully limit it.
Paint, rust, poor eaths etc can also help limit the severity of a shock.
A short sharp even a severe shock is unlikely to prove fatal from heart failure.
It may stun a healthy heart and make it miss a few beats before it re-starts beating normally. This is the method by which an in-effective heart is re-started beating normally by a de-fibrilator where a massive shock is passed directly across the heart.
A continuous shock can cause non reversable bio chemical damage from which the heart and other organs cannot recover.
The reflex actions of limbs involved in the shock will act to disconnect the body from the source of current long before any serious damage can be done.
But DO NOT test this as an un-healthy heart when stunned may not be able to recover a normal beat pattern. That is the situation when a de-fib fails to re-start a heart
It may stun a healthy heart and make it miss a few beats before it re-starts beating normally. This is the method by which an in-effective heart is re-started beating normally by a de-fibrilator where a massive shock is passed directly across the heart.
A continuous shock can cause non reversable bio chemical damage from which the heart and other organs cannot recover.
The reflex actions of limbs involved in the shock will act to disconnect the body from the source of current long before any serious damage can be done.
But DO NOT test this as an un-healthy heart when stunned may not be able to recover a normal beat pattern. That is the situation when a de-fib fails to re-start a heart
That's only true of DC (as in defibrillators) - so what you are saying is misleading. The risk with exposure to one cycle or more of AC (20ms) is that of inducing ventricular fibrillation (and 50Hz is close to the 'optimum' frequency for doing that) - if that happens, nothing other than a large DC shock (from a defibrillator) will 'stun' the heart into a quiescent state, hence (hopefully, not guaranteed) allowing it to re-start beating normally - hence 'bringing you back from the dead'. Ventricular fibrillation very very rarely goes away on itself, so is nearly always fatal, unless treated (terminated) immediately.
Kind Regards, John.
John
Early de-fibrillators gave a DC shock by discharging a capacitor onto the pads but modern de-fibrilators with the advantage of modern reliable electronics give a bi-phase shock of controlled current.
This is quoted from http://incenter.medical.philips.com..._Sheet_(TDS)_(ENG).pdf?nodeid=577848&vernum=4
Early de-fibrillators gave a DC shock by discharging a capacitor onto the pads but modern de-fibrilators with the advantage of modern reliable electronics give a bi-phase shock of controlled current.
This is quoted from http://incenter.medical.philips.com..._Sheet_(TDS)_(ENG).pdf?nodeid=577848&vernum=4
It's not just 'modern' - for about 30 years, 'biphasic' defibrillators have been pretty standard, development having been fuelled by the need to minimise current/voltage requirements so as to facilitate the production of implantable defibrillators.
However, it's still essentially DC. The 'biphasic' approach involves what has come to be known as the 'Lown waveform' - an initial large pulse of one polarity, lasting about 10ms, followed by a very much smaller (typically about 5%) pulse of the opposite polarity - created by discharging a capacitor through an inductor. It is sometimes described as 'a highly damped sinusoidal waveform', and is damped so heavily that it is effectively limited to one 'cycle' (1.5 at most, with the final half-cycle being tiny in magnitude). A typical waveform is:
Kind Regards, John.
Again quoting from Philips public domain documents.
The Lown waveform is that which one would get from the discharge of a capacitor via an inductor into a complex impedance such as that which the human body is. The second half cycle is the energy shock stored in the body returning to the capacitor and was not "intentional" from the de-fib.
complex impedance = resistance, capacity, inductance and chemical storage ( as in a fast acting battery ) and other factors. In the 1960's testing of de-fibs involved a dead pig's body as the best ( easiest with available technology ) simulation of the human body.
The second half cycle of the modern bi-phase is intentional and the current in the second half cycle is sourced and controlled by the di-fibs electronics. If I recall correctly the second half cycle is intended to rapidly restore the electro-chemical status in the body that the first half cycle would have disrupted. This restore would occur much slower by passive dis-charge of energy from the first half cycle stored in the flesh.
Survivor Bias in reporting.
The only reports you see from people who have been in life-threatening situations are from the ones that weren't killed.
The ones who were never say anything.
BTW I presume you know that people who have been shocked are advised to go to A&E since some of them suffer a heart attach hours later.
Are you still there?
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
