How come this hasn't been picked up for 15 years??

[Bazzeruk]

This picture shows the position of flues from my two boilers (heating and hot water) as well as a vent. Our new gas engineer says this is illegal (not enough space between flues) and we need a new combi boiler as re-positioning of the water heater flue is not possible.

This was a purpose built flat, original equpment.

Any comments please?

 

[nortonj]

A flue cannot be within 1500mm above another flue terminal and cannot be within 300mm if an opening to the building, unless the manufacturer allows it. Which in most cases i believe they do not.

 

[muggles]

I'd say your new engineer is spot on. The two flues are definitely too close together, they should be 1500mm apart, and the top one is also almost certainly too close to that plastic vent above it that you've marked "3". Depending on the power output of "2", "3" should be either 300, 600, 1500, or 2000mm away from it (I'm assuming it's a natural draught appliance)

 

[footprints]

I would be very surprised if they are both original equipment I cannot see any developer installing two appliances when one would do both heating and hot water 15 years ago.

As said they do look badly sited although it would still be iffy they may have considered the top vent as an extractor vent so unlikely to pull in fumes, but i would not have sited it like that. Another problem is, if that is an extractor you upper appliance will be pulling in damp air dust grease or whatever the vent is discharging.

 

[Bazzeruk]

Thanks all - I just don't understand why this wasn't picked up before, when we have had three engineers over that time we have had the flat.

Engineer is quoting around £1500 to fit a Baxi Duotec24 ERP. Just have to swallow it I suppose!

Thanks again to all who replied.

Cheers

 

[Jackrae]

Depending on the capability of boiler "2" it may be within manufacturer's specification allowances to reroute the flue system to the right (2 extra bends and a straight length) such that the required clearances are obtained. If it is permitted this could be installed on the outer wall - assuming 'prettyness' isn't a problem.

 

[TCCHeating]

Thanks all - I just don't understand why this wasn't picked up before, when we have had three engineers over that time we have had the flat.

Engineer is quoting around £1500 to fit a Baxi Duotec24 ERP. Just have to swallow it I suppose!

Thanks again to all who replied.

Cheers

How did your new engineer classify it? Looks to me that it would be classified 'at risk' at worst. Some may argue it is only 'not to current standards'. Although ncs has been dropped now. If it was classified ar the engineer can request that the gas to the appliances is turned off. But you are free to say no. The engineer then makes a note of this on your warning notice and you are free to keep using both appliances.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

He is correct that they are not fitted to the correct building regs. But that doesn't mean you need new appliance. There are literally hundreds of thousands of boilers in the UK fitted not to the correct standerds, but as long as their operating safely and dont pose a risk (and looking at your picture I dont see any risk) I certainly wouldnt be replacing them for that reason alone.

 

[Wongfeifox]

Ok so we have more than 2 not to current standards (which no longer exist) so we can raise the classification to AR. If not to current no longer exists where do we stand ?
As the above said we can only class as AR if combustion is being affected. The top flue is natural draught and probably has no test point to examine emmissions and unless you get up a ladder to test it we won't know either way.
Heat rises and it is extremely unlikely that it would go down and be pulled into flue 1 (possibly, maybe, one day, if...)
Yes it is too close to the extractor which we assume blows out, but it could, possibly, maybe one day, if... re-enter through the ducting.
It is also too close to the external corner should be 600mm for natural draught.
Flue 1 is fan draught and will be pushing fumes away from the building, but again possibly, could, maybe, one day, if... cause flue 2 to draw its products into its air intake causing incomplete combustion due to already burnt oxygen being used as its air supply.
We are using a lot of if's and maybe's in this conjecture and even if we say it is AR we cannot make you turn it off, we are only advising you.
If I know something is only AR due to paperwork I'll let the cust know I'm just covering my backside, if I think it poses a slightly more higher risk I'll let you know that I wouldn't let my mum use it, however I'm too honest and not touting for work in this instance.
Again there are thousand upon thousand of scenarios like this throughout the country.
Eg bend on flue before 600mm, wrong terminal and height above roof pitch, doesn't mean I'd turn your boiler off if it meets all my safety checks.

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Ok so we have more than 2 not to current standards (which no longer exist) so we can raise theclassification to AR. If not to current no longer exists where do we stand ?


Do you have any qualifications at all in gas?

 

[Wongfeifox]

Ok so we have more than 2 not to current standards (which no longer exist) so we can raise theclassification to AR. If not to current no longer exists where do we stand ?


Do you have any qualifications at all in gas?

In gas ? yes.
In using an iPhone late at night with fat fingers, not really.
In laughing at one of the responses on here absolutely.
And you ask if I'm qualified ?

 

[ScottishGasMan]

Ok so we have more than 2 not to current standards (which no longer exist) so we can raise theclassification to AR. If not to current no longer exists where do we stand ?


Do you have any qualifications at all in gas?

In gas ? yes.
In using an iPhone late at night with fat fingers, not really.
In laughing at one of the responses on here absolutely.
And you ask if I'm qualified ?

For a start multiple NCS only made AR on open flued boilers, and I dont see any open flues in the pic above.

If your GasSafe registered by all means join in on the Combustion Chamber forum, amazing what you'll pick up in there.

 

[Wongfeifox]

Ah jeez I stand corrected, I told you it was late.
I was asked by the admin (is it Dan ?) to join the chamber a few years back, but I declined judging from some of replies then and from what I've read tonight it looks like things haven't changed too much.
Some of these people scare me, a bit like the idiot ARing room sealed appliances for mncs'.
At least I can put it down to being late, some of these replies are given in daylight hours.

 

[TCCHeating]

Some of these people scare me, a bit like the idiot ARing room sealed appliances for mncs'.
At least I can put it down to being late, some of these replies are given in daylight hours.

Who are you calling an idiot? I said at worse it could be classified as ar. I didn't say that is how I would classify it. What I said in the next sentence should have given you a clue on my stance.

Take my advice and get yourself some sleep and reconsider who's an idiot when you have a clear head

 

[ScottishGasMan]

I think he was reffering to himself not to you TCC